Daniel Tiger's mother?

[mjb1124]

Here's something that boggles my mind.   In episode 1460, Margaret Witch's crystal ball shows that Daniel Striped Tiger marries Collette Tiger.   In DTN, young Daniel's father is supposedly the original Daniel from MRN, and his mother is simply known as "Mom Tiger".    I'm wondering if the new "Mom" character is supposed to be "Collette".   Probably not, but it's interesting to think about, and perhaps a missed opportunity if they didn't go that route.   But hey, we can't expect the new producers to remember every detail, and perhaps that scene in 1460 isn't considered canon.   In general, I do wonder if Grandpere and/or his descendants will play a role in this show.

[earnhardtfan4life]

I think we might have to dumb you down to a 3 or 4 year old!  Just kidding...

A lot isn't going to make sense.  It's sad it has to be that way.  There might be subtle reminders a long the way, but I'm afraid this is a whole new ball game.  I'm wondering how they are going to introduce the characters in the first episode.

I was thinking they could go with a grown up Carrie Dell, since we only seen her as a baby.     

I could be wrong but I almost doubt seriously that even the lands Westwood, Northwood and Southwood even get mentioned at all.

Mike

[mitsguy2001]

Here's something that boggles my mind.   In episode 1460, Margaret Witch's crystal ball shows that Daniel Striped Tiger marries Collette Tiger.   In DTN, young Daniel's father is supposedly the original Daniel from MRN, and his mother is simply known as "Mom Tiger".    I'm wondering if the new "Mom" character is supposed to be "Collette".   Probably not, but it's interesting to think about, and perhaps a missed opportunity if they didn't go that route.   But hey, we can't expect the new producers to remember every detail, and perhaps that scene in 1460 isn't considered canon.   In general, I do wonder if Grandpere and/or his descendants will play a role in this show.

In that episode, Lady Aberlin asks Daniel how he feels about marrying Collette.  He says that it is up to he and Collette to decide whether or not to marry, and the crystal ball can't force them to marry.  Lady Aberlin then realizes that Daniel is right (a classic case of an adult learning something important from a child).  That is the last time in that episode (or any episode) that the crystal ball is used.  I think that was a subtle way of implying that the crystal ball can't accurately predict the future, because nobody can.  So, that implies that Daniel and Collette did not necessarily get married.

Also keep in mind that the episode in question (1460) had its last airing in 1989.  Nobody who is in the target age group for Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood has ever seen that episode, so it's not relevant to them.

[bka]

In the original program, Daniel represented the youngest age of all the puppets. The fact that he had no parents always made him particularly vulnerable & precious.  I always thought of him as an orphan. Of the 3 school children at Someplace Else, only Daniel did not have 2 parents.

Today saw the preview of DTN.  Hated it.  robotic drawings, a sameness to all the figures, flat and dull.  Generic voices. A father and mother for Daniel and a clock with hands on it (!) beside Daniel. A "think-positive" cliche that does not even take time to honor the disappointment of the smushed cake. Daniel is somehow a bit older, while other animal neighbors are - what? - relatives of the original beings?  A theme song ripped off the original without improving upon it. An animated cartoon, for Goodness' sake. drawn, unreal characters who turn to the watching child as though an interaction between a drawn character and a real watching child could be.  After 40 years of distinguishing what is real from what is not - so children would not put on capes and fly off fire-escapes in imitation of the super-heroes in comic books and live animation & Hollywood films.

The old saying that a camel is a horse that was made by a committee.  I'll bet this lifeless llittle endeavor was vetted by child psychologists until it was flat as a pancake.  Flatter.  no dimension whatsoever, no shadings in the so-called art work.

I hope the original songs will be there, however mechanized the visuals.  when I can next bear to watch, I will try to follow the little message: find the good in it despite my bias, despite being marinated in Fredtruths for so many years.

uk.  gag me with a spoon, as it is said.  and didn't even use the voice of Aber or Stewart, Horton or Meledandri, to lend depth to the characters.  Made in Canada on the cheap, maybe even non-union is my guess.  How the graceful have fallen.  new neighborhood order.  infinity reduced to planet purple conformity.

[mitsguy2001]

In the original program, Daniel represented the youngest age of all the puppets.

In the pre-79s at least, Prince Tuesday and Ana were clearly younger than Daniel.  Tuesday and Ana weren't even born until 1970, while Daniel was old enough to speak English for the entire series.

The fact that he had no parents always made him particularly vulnerable & precious.  I always thought of him as an orphan. Of the 3 school children at Someplace Else, only Daniel did not have 2 parents.

According to the University of Pittsburgh files, in Episode 101, Daniel mentions that his mother used to whistle him to sleep when he was younger.  That implies that Daniel had at least a mother, who was never seen on camera.

Today saw the preview of DTN.  Hated it.  robotic drawings, a sameness to all the figures, flat and dull.  Generic voices.

I'm sorry to hear you didn't like it.  What I saw of it looked cute, but I have to agree with you that it is nowhere near as good as MRN.  MRN dealt with many serious topics that are important to kids.  I know you have said that many of the more serious topics (such as the assasination special, the death of a goldfish episode, Divorce week, Conflict week, the violence in the news special) were ideas that you had suggested to Fred.  It's a shame that children's programs these days are shying way from topics like these.  As you know, life isn't always fun and games.

Also, your wonderful acting and singing will be sorely missed on this new series.  Lady Aberlin was one of the most beloved characters from a children's series.  I realize that Fred created the character and wrote her lines and she wasn't very much like your real life personality.  But your acting skills were what brought that character to life!  Also, as I mentioned in another thread, you have one of the most beautiful voices I have ever heard.

A father and mother for Daniel

Actually, the Daniel chracter from MRN is the father of the new Daniel in DTN.  Daniel from MRN is married to Mom Tiger, and they have a son that is also named Daniel.

and a clock with hands on it (!) beside Daniel. A "think-positive" cliche that does not even take time to honor the disappointment of the smushed cake.

Yeah, Daniel seemed to get over the diapointment of the smashed cake a little too easily.  If it was MRN with the old Daniel, he would have been very upset, and he would have had a heart to heart conversation with Lady Aberlin, who would have assured him that everything is ok, and they would have ugga mugaed at the end.  That kind of interaction was one of the things that made MRN so special.  I don't think a cartoon would ever be able to re-create the emotion that you showed with Daniel.  Just having Daniel instantly get over the smashed cake doesn't seem as helpul to young kids as a convesation with the old Daniel and Lady Aberlin.

One of my pet peeves is when an adult tells a child (or another adult) to just "get over something" or that "life isn't fair" so they should just accept it and move on.  I have a bad feeling that DTN might be headed in that direction, but it's hard to tell based on just that preview.  I much prefer the heart to heart conversations that Lady Aberlin had with Daniel.

Daniel is somehow a bit older, while other animal neighbors are - what? - relatives of the original beings?

The puppets from MRN are now all adults, and the major characters in DTN are the children of those puppets.  Daniel Tiger is the son of the original Daniel Striped Tiger (who married Mom Tiger).  Katerina Kittycat is the daughter of Henrietta Pussycat (who aparently married a Mr. Kittycat).  O the Owl is the son of X the Owl.  Miss Elaina is the daughter of Lady Elaine, who married Stan the Music Man.  Not sure if Prince Wednesday is supposed to be the younger brother or the son of Prince Tuesday.  I know that on MRN, Daniel, Henrietta, X the Owl, Lady Elaine, and Prince Tuesday were all different ages, but on DTN, they seem to have become peers.  But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, kids from the target age group of DTN have never watched MRN, so continuity with MRN isn't that important.

A theme song ripped off the original without improving upon it. An animated cartoon, for Goodness' sake. drawn, unreal characters who turn to the watching child as though an interaction between a drawn character and a real watching child could be.  After 40 years of distinguishing what is real from what is not - so children would not put on capes and fly off fire-escapes in imitation of the super-heroes in comic books and live animation & Hollywood films.

The old saying that a camel is a horse that was made by a committee.  I'll bet this lifeless llittle endeavor was vetted by child psychologists until it was flat as a pancake.  Flatter.  no dimension whatsoever, no shadings in the so-called art work.

I definitely agree with you there.  As I said before, it's a shame that children's television has declined so much and has become so dumbed down.  To be honest, I have more respect for somebody like you who had real life experience that you wanted to share with kids, than I do for a child psychologist who has never experienced the real world.  MRN, with topics such as conflict, divorce, and death (as well as the many lighter and more fun topics) muc better prepares kids for life than something like this would.

I hope the original songs will be there, however mechanized the visuals.  when I can next bear to watch, I will try to follow the little message: find the good in it despite my bias, despite being marinated in Fredtruths for so many years.

Sounds like a good attitude.

uk.  gag me with a spoon, as it is said.  and didn't even use the voice of Aber or Stewart, Horton or Meledandri, to lend depth to the characters.

That is definitely disapointing.  I'm especially surprised that Chuck Aber's voice wasn't used.

Made in Canada on the cheap, maybe even non-union is my guess.

To be honest (and I am not trying to offend anybody here), many unions in the US have very unreasonable demands, and that forces work to be done in other countries (such as Canada, in this case, but more commonly to less developed nations), where workers would have even fewer rights than in the US.  If unions were willing to give in on some of the more ridiculous demands, then more work would be able to remain in the US.

Back to MRN: I know that Fred wrote many beautiful scenes with Lady Aberlin and Daniel (more so than with any other character), and you have also said many times that Daniel was your favorite puppet.  Did Fred realize that you really liked Daniel, so he gave you more scenes with him?  Or did you end up liking Daniel so much because you had those scenes with him?  Something I was always curious about.

Again, I'm glad that you gave DTN a fair try, and sorry that you didn't like it.

[bka]

" I realize that Fred created the character and wrote her lines and she wasn't very much like your real life personality."

I am not going to try to explain this any more. I am very much like my Lady Aberlin character - and whatever else of me was not suitable or of use in a program meant for 2 to 4 year old children with one star (Fred Rogers) did not find a home in the Neighborhood.


"But your acting skills were what brought that character to life!" 

perhaps my acting skills helped to bring the puppets (whose faces were mostly immobile) a bit more to life. thank you for the compliment.

"Also, as I mentioned in another thread, you have one of the most beautiful voices I have ever heard."

and thank you again.  In truth, the trained singing voices on the program (John Reardon, Francois Clemmons, Michael Horton, Maggie Stewart & Chuck Aber) were far superior to my own.  I tried to stand for the child who could sing just for the joy of singing.  I've always been insecure about my singing. and my speaking voice is just the one I was given by the Most High.  :0)

[mitsguy2001]

" I realize that Fred created the character and wrote her lines and she wasn't very much like your real life personality."

I am not going to try to explain this any more. I am very much like my Lady Aberlin character - and whatever else of me was not suitable or of use in a program meant for 2 to 4 year old children with one star (Fred Rogers) did not find a home in the Neighborhood.

What I said was almost a direct quote from several of your interviews.  For example, in this interview:
http://www.jerseygirl-movie.com/interviews/4.html

About two thirds of the way down, you have this quote:

"Fred is a genius, and I think Kevin is too. In my lifetime I'm very lucky to have gotten to work with two such disperate talents. But my own nature is not Lady Aberlin."

Sorry if I upset you, but I was basically just quoting what you said in that interview.

"But your acting skills were what brought that character to life!"  

perhaps my acting skills helped to bring the puppets (whose faces were mostly immobile) a bit more to life. thank you for the compliment.

What I meant was that your acting skills brought to life the Lady Aberlin character that Fred wrote.  Without you, that character would have been just lines on a paper and thoughts in Fred's head.  You were the one who turned those lines into a character that kids would admire.

"Also, as I mentioned in another thread, you have one of the most beautiful voices I have ever heard."

and thank you again.  In truth, the trained singing voices on the program (John Reardon, Francois Clemmons, Michael Horton, Maggie Stewart & Chuck Aber) were far superior to my own.  I tried to stand for the child who could sing just for the joy of singing.  I've always been insecure about my singing.

Keep in mind that I was born in 1979 and stopped watching MRN during the mid-80s.  So the episodes that I had seen were from 1970 to around 1986 or so.  You were in the vast majority of the episodes that I saw as a kid.  On the other hand, John Reardon was only in the operas.  Even if I saw every opera that aired in my lifetime (and I know I didn't), that would have been only 10 episodes.  Francois Clemmons's role was diminished during the 1970 season, and was only an occasional character after that.  Michael Horton never appeared on camera and only voiced puppets (and I don't remember hearing them sing, and probably not in his natural voice anyway).  Maggie Stewart and Chuck Aber didn't appear much until the last few episodes that I would have seen, and their roles weren't expanded until after I had stopped watching.  So, I wasn't as familiar with Maggie or Chuck.  Your voice was the one that I heard by far the most on the show.  I do have to admit, however, that one of the main things I remembered about MRN was when Chuck Aber sang that song "Your Westwood neighbor, Charles. R. Aber", and I was surprised to find out that was used in only one episode, from 1985, which was near the end of the era that I watched MRN (so its not even as if I saw that episode many times).

My point is that even if the people you listed have the best singing voices in the world, I didn't hear them often enough.

Also, keep in mind that the technical expertise of a person's voice does not necessarily mean that it's put to good use or is even pleasant to an individual listener's ears.  For example, I read on a website (not sure if it's accurate or not, but we'll assume it is) that Miley Cyrus has a larger vocal range than Katy Perry.  However, I find Katy Perry's voice very pleasant to listen to, and she sings a lot of songs that I like.  On the other hand, I do not find Miley's voice particularly pleasant, and I do not particularly like the songs that she chooses to sing.

and my speaking voice is just the one I was given by the Most High.  :0)

And God gave you a great speaking voice!  :)

[bka]

thanks mits. what is your actual name?  I think I was trying to say that no person can be as sweet, chaste, and always-there-for-others as the Lady Aberlin that Fred wrote. I was trying to say that there is more dimension to me than was shown in the simple declarative sentences of the script, and the very focused intentions of MRN. I was trying to say that people over the years have resented and been surprised by me as a human being when I deviated from the kindly baby-sitter sister being who talked with such precient understanding to the puppet-beings.  I once discovered that a doctor had done an unnecessary procedure he had not out-front warned me about, one that gave me a good deal of pain. I was outraged, and told him how angry I was. His response was "Lady Aberlin would never talk like that!"

respecting other work, some have wondered how I could align myself with Kevin Smith and his (holy) profanity, having worked with Fred. To me they are both ministers of their time. What I expressed in that interview was my vast relief of being out of the MRN box (where any word-deviation from script merited criticism, and where over the years, child psychology got the better of whimsey, with a little assist from PBS) and back into a realm of comedy, which I had done for many years previous to my MRN years. In Dogma, and in Jersey Girl, I recovered the joy of performance itself.  The difference between my early years in Neighborhood and the later ones was the difference between joy and humble confidence in my gifts, through many a life lesson, to spirit-murder. Which you who parse every molecule of the Neighborhood could not know unless I tell it. My experience was mine. I do not speak for other neighbors. with Kevin I had freedom. freedom to be creative. I know that it was probably his kindly sentiment toward me for having been Lady A. that might have given me the edge over other actors vying for work, but I did not know how limited I had been over the years, and how cowed by the benign dictatorship of Neighborhood until I had entered the world of ViewAskew. In casting me in anything, Kevin had done something known as "stunt casting" - he joked that he had always wanted to hear Lady Aberlin say "dirty" words....both in Zack & Miri (the scene was cut) and in Red State.  Perhaps stunt casting was all it was.  But because of it, I remembered why I had wanted to act in the first place, and late in my life as it is, I am very grateful for his influence and the opportunity he has afforded me.  tmi

[mitsguy2001]

thanks mits. what is your actual name?

You're welcome.  My actual name is Joe.   :)

I think I was trying to say that no person can be as sweet, chaste, and always-there-for-others as the Lady Aberlin that Fred wrote. I was trying to say that there is more dimension to me than was shown in the simple declarative sentences of the script, and the very focused intentions of MRN. I was trying to say that people over the years have resented and been surprised by me as a human being when I deviated from the kindly baby-sitter sister being who talked with such precient understanding to the puppet-beings.  I once discovered that a doctor had done an unnecessary procedure he had not out-front warned me about, one that gave me a good deal of pain. I was outraged, and told him how angry I was. His response was "Lady Aberlin would never talk like that!"

I am sorry to hear that you had that experience.  :(  You had every right to react the way that you did, and it didn't matter what "Lady Aberlin" would have done.  That reminds me of when somebody tries to stand up for themselves and fight an injustice (rather than just being a doormat), and somebody attacks that person and just casually throw out the line "What would Jesus do", without even thinking about it.  From my experience, many doctors (obviously not all doctors, and this is not unique to doctors anyway) see the world as being about money and lawsuits, and often have a hard time seeing the human side of the patient.

[DannyGal]

I like this show! I think it's sooo cute!

I know that this is aimed at little kids and told from a little kind point of view so we'll probably never know the real name of Big Daniel's wife (what 5 year old knows his parent's first names...or even that their parents HAVE a first name). So I've taken to calling her JoAnne after Fred's wife.

Looks kinda like a JoAnne, doesn't she? :)

[bka]

on MRN the character modeled after Joanne Rogers was Sarah Saturday.

[DannyGal]

No reason why a character can't also be NAMED JoAnne, right?

[Lawrence Martin]

I think her name should be Collette they all ready have Grandpere and Daniel S Tiger Sr.

[GioMon]

Collette Tiger would work.

Tiger Family Tree

Parents:
Grandprere
Daniel Striped Tiger Sr. (Dad Tiger)


Collette Tiger (Mom Tiger)

Children:
Daniel Striped Tiger Jr.
Margaret Tiger

[mitsguy2001]

Are you suggesting that Daniel married his sister?