Author Topic: Set evolution during 1968 season  (Read 10728 times)

mitsguy2001

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Set evolution during 1968 season
« on: March 17, 2013, 09:13:55 PM »
I know that the set evolved a lot during the 1968 season.  It started off very different, but eventually became very similar to the set that was used in 1969 and 1970.  Tim: since you've seen every episode, when did the set change?  From other posts, I got the impression that it was a very gradual change?  Do you remember when it started changing?

Did you find out anything about the early episodes that were re-recorded, especially the one that had a production date later than its airdate?

Thanks.

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 06:36:28 AM »
It's hard to say exactly when in the 1968 season that the set officially changed. I think there may have been some discussion on here about this at one time but if you look closely at some of the screenshots, especially as you get a few dozen episodes into the season, the set seems to change back and forth a bit. Probably a simple matter of episodes being aired in a different order than they were actually filmed, I'd guess.

As for the production dates on a few episodes being later than their airdates, I've not found out anything there.

mjb1124

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 10:59:06 PM »
It seems as though there was a significant set change starting with the episodes that were taped on 11/8/68 (episodes 22 and 23).   The location of the wardrobe closet changed to be facing towards the viewer, and the tall picture of the trolleys moved to the right of it (rather than the left).    The area surrounding the trolley tracks changed as well.    The last episode with the older configuration, in both on-air and taping order, was episode 20 (though if episode 21 was reshot, it may have originally had it).   Of course, episodes 9 and 16 also had the newer configuration due to being taped out of order (or again, possibly reshot).

I'm sure there were other set changes before and after this.   I noticed that episode 4's set looked like an even earlier iteration than seen on the other episodes from the first week.   But the difference seen starting with the 11/8/68 taping is the most immediately noticeable.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 11:01:01 PM by mjb1124 »

earnhardtfan4life

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 02:28:45 AM »
I can't remember right off which episode number it is during the '68 season but the post right in front of the front door gets cut as well.

Mike

mjb1124

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 01:39:25 PM »
Here's a listing of all of the 1968 episodes in reverse chronological order by tape date.   Perhaps this could help clear a few things up?

021: 8/7/68 (airdate listed as 3/18 - reshoot?? may have first aired 9/16??)
130: 8/1/68 (aired 8/16)
129: 8/1/68 (aired 8/15)

128: 7/31/68 (aired 8/14)
127: 7/31/68 (aired 8/13)
126: 7/25/68 (aired 8/12)
125: 7/25/68 (aired 8/9)
124: 7/24/68 (aired 8/8)
123: 7/24/68 (aired 8/7)
122: 7/22/68 (aired 8/6)
121: 7/22/68 (aired 8/5)
120: 7/15/68 (aired 8/2)
118: 7/11/68 (aired 8/1)
119: 7/10/68 (aired 7/31)
117: 7/10/68 (aired 7/30)
116: 7/9/68 (aired 7/29)
113: 7/9/68 (aired 7/24)
112: 7/8/68 (aired 7/23)
111: 7/8/68 (aired 7/22)

115: 6/27/68 (aired 7/26)
114: 6/27/68 (aired 7/25)
110: 6/25/68 (aired 7/19)
108: 6/25/68 (aired 7/17)
109: 6/20/68 (aired 7/18)
106: 6/19/68 (aired 7/15)
103: 6/19/68 (aired 7/10)
107: 6/13/68 (aired 7/16)
104: 6/13/68 (aired 7/11)
102: 6/10/68 (aired 7/9)
097: 6/10/68 (aired 7/2)
095: 6/6/68 (aired 6/28)
096: 6/5/68 (aired 7/1)
094: 6/5/68 (aired 6/27)

093: 5/30/68 (aired 6/26)
101: 5/29/68 (aired 7/8)
091: 5/29/68 (aired 6/24)
100: 5/23/68 (aired 7/5)
105: 5/22/68 (aired 7/12)
098: 5/16/68 (aired 7/3)
099: 5/15/68 (aired 7/4)
085: 5/9/68 (aired 6/14)
088: 5/8/68 (aired 6/19)
087: 5/8/68 (aired 6/18)
090: 5/6/68 (aired 6/21)
089: 5/6/68 (aired 6/20)
092: 5/2/68 (aired 6/25)
083: 5/2/68 (aired 6/12; pre-opera w/ Reardon)
086: 5/1/68 (aired 6/17)
084: 5/1/68 (aired 6/13; opera)

082: 4/24/68 (aired 6/11)
079: 4/24/68 (aired 6/6)
081: 4/18/68 (aired 6/10)
080: 4/17/68 (aired 6/7)
078: 4/17/68 (aired 6/5)
074: 4/11/68 (aired 5/30)
077: 4/10/68 (aired 6/4)
076: 4/8/68 (aired 6/3)
075: 4/8/68 (aired 5/31)
073: 4/4/68 (aired 5/29)
072: 4/3/68 (aired 5/28)
071: 4/3/68 (aired 5/27)

070: 3/20/68 (aired 5/24)
069: 3/20/68 (aired 5/23)
068: 3/14/68 (aired 5/22)
067: 3/13/68 (aired 5/21)
066: 3/13/68 (aired 5/20)
065: 3/7/68 (aired 5/17)
064: 3/6/68 (aired 5/16)
063: 3/6/68 (aired 5/15)

059: 2/29/68 (aired 5/9)
062: 2/28/68 (aired 5/14)
056: 2/28/68 (aired 5/6)
061: 2/22/68 (aired 5/13)
057: 2/21/68 (aired 5/7)
051: 2/19/68 (aired 4/29)
049: 2/19/68 (aired 4/25)
058: 2/15/68 (aired 5/8)
060: 2/14/68 (aired 5/10)
054: 2/14/68 (aired 5/2)
055: 2/8/68 (aired 5/3)
053: 2/7/68 (aired 5/1)
048: 2/7/68 (aired 4/24)
046: 2/7/68 (aired 4/22)
052: 2/1/68 (aired 4/30)

050: 1/31/68 (aired 4/26)
047: 1/31/68 (aired 4/23)
039: 1/18/68 (aired 4/11)
042: 1/17/68 (aired 4/16)
041: 1/17/68 (aired 4/15)
045: 1/11/58 (aired 4/19; opera)
044: 1/11/68 (aired 4/18; pre-opera w/ Reardon)
043: 1/10/68 (aired 4/17; pre-opera; Reardon's first)
040: 1/4/68 (aired 4/12)
009: 1/4/68 (aired 2/29)

024: 12/15/67 (aired 3/21)
016: 12/14/67 (aired 3/11)
038: 12/13/67 (aired 4/10)
037: 12/13/67 (aired 4/9)
036: 12/7/67 (aired 4/8)
035: 12/6/67 (aired 4/5)
034: 12/6/67 (aired 4/4)

033: 11/30/67 (aired 4/3)
032: 11/29/67 (aired 4/2)
028: 11/29/67 (aired 3/27)
030: 11/24/67 (aired 3/29)
031: 11/22/67 (aired 4/1)
029: 11/22/67 (aired 3/28)
026: 11/16/67 (aired 3/25)
027: 11/15/67 (aired 3/26)
023: 11/8/67 (aired 3/20; first tapings with set changes listed above)
022: 11/8/67 (aired 3/19; first tapings with set changes listed above)
020: 11/1/67 (aired 3/15; last tapings before set changes listed above)
019: 11/1/67 (aired 3/14; last tapings before set changes listed above)

018: 10/26/67 (aired 3/13)
017: 10/25/67 (aired 3/12)
014: 10/18/67 (aired 3/7)
015: 10/19/67 (aired 3/8)
013: 10/19/67 (aired 3/6)
011: 10/12/67 (aired 3/4)
012: 10/11/67 (aired 3/5)
010: 10/11/67 (aired 3/1)
008: 10/5/67 (aired 2/28)

007: 9/28/67 (aired 2/27)
001: 9/21/67 (aired 2/19)

Taping dates I couldn't read clearly:
006: 7/25/67?? or 9/25?? (aired 2/26)
(EDIT: had 008 on this list, but I saw that Tim said it was 10/5 in another thread, so I'll take his word for it)

Unknown tape dates:
025: aired 3/22, most likely taped after 11/1/67 judging from the set
005: aired 2/23, most likely taped on or before 11/1/67 judging from the set
003: aired 2/21, most likely taped on or before 11/1/67 judging from the set
002: aired 2/20, most likely taped on or before 11/1/67 judging from the set
004: aired 2/22, seems like a VERY early taping (maybe the first ever?) judging from the set
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 06:09:28 PM by mjb1124 »

mitsguy2001

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 09:29:43 PM »
Thanks for posting that.  That is very interesting.  Are there any set changes in the NOM, or only in Fred's house?  What about in the opening and closing credits?  I wonder if when Episode 21 was re-shot, if they re-shot the entire episode, or just the NOM.

Another curiosity is Episode 10.  Barbara Russell is listed on the production slate and in the end credits, but she does not appear.  However, Betty Aberlin does appear in the episode, but does not appear in the production slate, nor does she appear in the end credits.  That leads me to think that the NOM was probably re-shot in that episode.

A possible hint as to when NOM segments were shot could be Betty's hair.  I seem to remember it being very short in the early 1968 episodes, but very long in the 1969 and 1970 episodes.  The RFK assasination special was obviously shot in early June 1968, and I seem to remember her hair still being short then.  That means she probably grew her hair during the summer of 1968.  If she has longer hair in a 1968 episode, it means the NOM was probably shot later during the summer of 1968, regardless of the date on the production slate (which may have been only for the real neighborhood parts).

Another strange thing I noticed: until 1971 (when many holidays were moved to Mondays), Washington's Birthday was Feb. 22, Memorial Day was May 30, and Columbus Day was Oct. 12.  Strangely, episodes were shot on all 3 of those dates!  I'm not surprised about Washington's Birthday or Columbus Day, since those are minor holidays.  But it seems very surprising that Fred would have shot an episode on Memorial Day.  I wonder if maybe the May 30 version of Memorial Day was a more minor holiday than today's Monday holiday that kicks off the summer.  Or I wonder if maybe Pennsylvania moved Memorial Day to a Monday before it was done nationally (unlikely).  Thanksgiving would have fallen on Nov. 23 in 1967, and I'm surprised that they shot an episode on the Friday after Thanksgiving, which nowadays is a de facto holiday.

It also seems that there was only a 1 week break in between the old set and the new set, with the old set used in the episodes shot on 11/1/67 and the new set in the episodes shot on 11/8/67.  I had pictured there being a much longer break.

Another question for Tim: do you have production dates for the 1969 and later episodes?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 10:28:39 PM by mitsguy2001 »

mitsguy2001

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 10:29:23 PM »
Something else just occurred to me: Betty said that the real neighborhood and NOM segments were shot on different days.  That means that the dates on the production slate can't be the date that the entire episode was shot.

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 08:45:09 AM »
Another question for Tim: do you have production dates for the 1969 and later episodes?

Unfortunately I don't. If I've got anything that shows the production date, I've included it in the screenshots on the episode pages.

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 08:46:17 AM »
Here's a listing of all of the 1968 episodes in reverse chronological order by tape date.

Thanks for doing this. I've thought about doing this myself a time or two but just never got around to it. Pretty interesting stuff...

mjb1124

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 12:58:46 PM »
You're welcome, Tim.   Glad I could help.

earnhardtfan4life

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 05:26:12 PM »
While we are on the subject of set designs this one puzzles me: 

http://www.fredrogerscenter.org/about/about-fred-rogers/mister-rogers-neighborhood-and-beyond/

Where and what is Fred doing in that picture?  I've seen that picture a number of times.  It almost looks like the kitchen with the refridgerator on the left.  Those swinging doors remind me of the ones in Brocketts bakery.  I'm thinking this is Mister Rogers Neighborhood from the EEN days.

Mike

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 07:42:45 PM »
I've only had the chance to see two or three of the early episodes from EEN and CBC, but if I remember the set from those episodes correctly, that's exactly where this photo is from. I could be wrong though.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 09:29:49 PM »
Tim: another question: I know that the aquarium was installed in Episode 87.  However, according to the list, Episodes 85 and 21 were shot later than 87.  My question is: was the aquarium visible in Episodes 85 and 21?  Also, you show Episodes 89, 90, and 92 as having been shot earlier than 87.  Was the aquarium missing from those episodes, or was it visible?  Thanks.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 10:06:49 PM »
In looking at the pictures, Episode 15 has the "new" traffic light.  That means that the set changes happened sometime earlier than Nov. 1, 1967, since Episode 15 was shot on Oct. 19, 1967.  Or was that just the new traffic light with an otherwise older set?  That could be, since even in 15, it looks different than in episodes shot later (such as 9 and 16) since it has a visible cord.  The newest episode that appears to have the original traffic light is 12.  The traffic light is not visible in the pictures from Episode 11, but based on the production date, it was probably the original traffic light.

Tim: can you confirm this?  Thanks.

From what I know, there are at least  4 different traffic lights that were used:

1. Episodes 1-8 and 10-12
2. Episode 9 and 13-130 (Tim: can you confirm which one was used in 13-20.  I'm sure traffic light #2 was used from at least 22-130)
3. Episode 1001 until either 1070 or 1075 (I wonder if it could have also been used in some random 1970 episodes later than 1070 or 1075)
4. Either 1071 or 1076 until 1765

Also, Tim, you did not show the traffic light in any of the 1969 episodes that you've posted so far.  Did traffic light #3 debut in Episode 1001 and remain for the entire season (and the first few 1970 episodes)?  Or was traffic light #2 still used for some of the 1969 season?  Or did #3 debut sometime during the 1968 season (unlikely).

Also, was 1001 the first episode in which the traffic light was green rather than yellow during the episode?

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Re: Set evolution during 1968 season
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 10:10:53 PM »
Took a look back to check on the fish tank...

E0021 / E0085 - No fish tank
E0089 / E0090 / E0092 - Filming never ventures past the stoplight so I can't confirm one way or the other

I'll get back to you on the stoplight details when I get a chance. Hopefully in the next day or two.