Author Topic: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique  (Read 57184 times)

Paul

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 05:58:50 PM »
"There's no "should" or "should not" when it comes to having feelings. They're part of who we are and their origins are beyond our control. When we can believe that, we may find it easier to make constructive choices about what to do with those feelings."
"Confronting our feelings and giving them appropriate expression always takes strength, not weakness... It takes strength to face our sadness and to grieve and let our grief and our anger flow in tears when they need to. It takes strength to talk about our feelings and to reach out for help and comfort when we need them."             --- Fred Rogers

http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/music/songs/truth_will_make_me_free.html

When Mr. Bulldog tells Josephine to do "five smiles in one standing while looking up into the sky," she doesn't just try it and "ta-da, problem solved!" She does overcome her problem, but its not just "'count to 4" and poof! problem solved...

Etc, etc, etc... Shall I go on?

I guess these are a few examples of why I don't think Fred would have approved of it.

JAO93

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 06:47:47 PM »

bka

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 08:00:36 PM »
Paul? yes. yes. yes. exactly. thanks.

pastorscott

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 10:06:32 PM »
I've done a lot of thinking about this subject for the past week, attempting to figure out how to feel about this new show.  I think the recent Podcast was helpful and suggested some positive improvements that could be made (maybe the FRC people listen to the podcast?).  But, Betty's comments and the discussion of those comments, on this thread and one other, have made think how much I don't like this show.

I think the adults are getting excited about the show because of the nostalgic connection, and they will get their kids to watch the show. But this show betrays Fred's depth concerning feelings.  I can't stand the jingles and the superficial life lessons.  Other than a few songs and props, I don't see how this show really furthers Fred's legacy. 

The episode I watched today had Daniel and Elaina make a cardboard rocketship.  Now, that's something Fred would do, encourage us to make our own toys (like our own shoebox trolley).  But it's the overall lack of depth concerning how complex emotional problems are dealt with concerns me.  I think the Ugga-Mugga slogan is just a symptom of the problem.  The creators don't seem to understand the depth of some of these important parts of the original, and then they turn them into trite slogans.  The Entertainment Weekly review captured some of those concerns (thanks, Betty, for sharing the link).  I can deal with the King Friday "jolly good" character (which I don't like), and the Lady Elaine makeover, but it's the original premise which is now made trite.  I can understand why Betty is so upset about this show.  Pretending to build on Fred Rogers' legacy, it betrays the principles she and others devoted their professional careers (and lives) to proclaim.

I realize that the show is aimed at 2-4 year olds, but if they're using  Fred's name, which they are, then they're  betraying his deeply-held ideas concerning children and feelings.  I'm not looking to repristinate the past (I still watch the original), but the name of Fred Rogers means more to me than catchy jingles and catch phrases.

And speaking of the original, why isn't more publicity given that 300+ eps are available on Amazon? Boy, this could be a good time to invite people to reconnect with the original.

My two kids watch the show.  They like the show.  It's not a bad show, for what it is.  Perhaps it will improve.  I want the show to succeed because I want the FRC to survive.  But I also watch the original with them.  Just bought the 1993 season on Saturday night.  The original had more depth and kids deserve the depth.

My two cents.

Scott

P.S.  Betty:  are other surviving neighbors aware of this message board?  Maybe they would share their thoughts?
 



bka

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 09:09:47 AM »
dear pastorscott - I certainly have tried to interest fellow neighbors in discovering this forum, so far with no luck.  some call themselves "recovering neighbors". Only half in jest I invented an organization & made myself secretary of it (no stationery yet): The Society of the Very Gifted Babies of the F.C.I. Bathwater.  Some were led to believe that their participation in bringing elements of the Neighborhood into the world was part of the Mission. Hard to change that "disappointment" into "find something good". Some, like Joe Negri, for example, had lent their very identities & gifts to MRN for so long that all they wanted to do was to re-focus their lives on their own projects. (Joe is a wonderful composer - check out his Mass on utube - it's sublime). Some have made their peace with the end of the program, and some are still working on letting go.  As I myself was perhaps too loyal, too deeply invested in the nature and - yes - purity of the program, in intention & execution - I was very touched that people here in the archive had such a profoound appreciation & curiosity about this that & the other thing. I have no real wish to call attention to myself, or make a vendetta against a creeping trend in which the boffo graphics exemplified by the big-bucks Sesame Street (& subsequent "Kid Shows") presentations upped the ante to the point that seeing humans would be"too boring" for a little one. & that child's parents (similarly jaded after years of ad blitzes & tv programming - and that is the word: "programming") - anxious to give & buy them the "latest/greatest". The explanation for the merch is that the new show is so expensive, and PBS in such jeopardy in these hard times (I think I read that Romney has spoken of cutting funds for PBS) - that they HAVE to sell "swag" to make ends meet.  I would have preferred that Chuck & Maggie & Michael Horton & Lenny Meledandri & Francois Clemmons (our best singers) be given a chance to make a record of Fred's songs (& those of us with less superb pipes!) - but as you see, the new DVD's you list, the pop-star-singers one & the recent jazz & jazz/vocal ones are all there is.  Management will tell you, and perhaps it is true, that sales on MRN & other FCI merchandise sells soo pitifully, that they have no interest in such a recording. I have dreamed that we could work with Winton Marcellus, for example, or ask jazz musicians to come & back us while paying their homage to Johnny Costa, whose music is one of the things MOST conspicuous by its absence on DTN. But it takes money and enthusiasm to believe that such a project would have worth for listeners (as well as to those who are the "old soldiers who don't die but just fade away."  Fred himself claimed to suffer through personal appearances, although I have seen him greatly uplifted by them, close-up. And as David Newell has received and himself answered requests for personal appearances, there has never been a focus on performance brought out from the tv into the real real neighborhood concert hall. Not all ideas can be brought to fruition.  Fred had the finances, the connections, the devotion, the vision, the creativity and the discipline to make his dreams a reality. We helped him because we believed in the righteousness of his dream. I'm sure FRC continues to believe as well....perhaps they had no choice but to serve a different master.

Jumpman256

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 03:39:33 PM »
Quote
Went to Angela's site and saw that she also uses UGGA-MUGGA! the way people use Have a Nice Day!.

Yeah, that might be my fault, I'm afraid. :(  I think Angela put that because when I wrote her my critique of the first episode of DTN (which she actually made into a  post on her blog because I'd been good-naturedly hounding her for a while [http://angelasclues.com/mister-rogers-fan} I told her I LIKED the 'ugga mugga' at the end.  So blame me, bka. Sorry 'bout that.

Paul

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2012, 05:15:08 PM »
if they're using  Fred's name, which they are, then they're  betraying his deeply-held ideas concerning children and feelings.  I'm not looking to repristinate the past (I still watch the original), but the name of Fred Rogers means more to me than catchy jingles and catch phrases...

...It's not a bad show, for what it is.  Perhaps it will improve.  I want the show to succeed because I want the FRC to survive.  But I also watch the original with them.  Just bought the 1993 season on Saturday night.  The original had more depth and kids deserve the depth.

Bingo.

bka

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2012, 07:39:01 PM »
dear jumpman, you can hardly blame yourself. It's clear that ugga-mugga was meant to reference MRN, and instead of our subtlety they are hammering it home and over-using it. Also clear that Angela has appropriated it - all on her own. and probably thought she was doing something endearing and upbeat homage-y.

pastorscott

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2012, 08:52:59 PM »
If any of you have read the DTN Facebook Comments, it looks like many adults are excited about the show.  Some seem to get emotional.  The reason why I think most adults are excited and emotional is because the cosmetics of the program.  I mean, the models, the traffic light, the fish tank, the songs, the trolley, the sneakers/sweater hoodie thing.  I was excited at first because of all these cosmetic items.  It felt good to see them reappear again.  But that's simply nostalgia, which is a way to get the parents to watch the shows.  I'm seeing through the cosmetics to the heart of the issue.

More thoughts about my comment about using Fred's name.  My wife works for the Mayo Clinic. Drs. Charlie and Will--their legacy still lives on in a very deep manner-even though they've been dead since the late 1930s.  If you invoke their name, you better hallow it. Same thing for Walt Disney. He's been dead for nearly 50 years.  After a recent trip to Disney World and a Disney Cruise, Walt Disney could be a live for all I knew.  He's still alive and well.  He's referred to a lot. His name isn't taken in vain.

I feel that Fred is on the same caliber as Disney and the brothers Mayo.  And his name shouldn't be taken in vain as well. I feel that this show unintentionally is doing so by its superficial nature. Fred was more about making creative toys and playing with friends. A lot more. 

The episode I watched today had an extended live action scene that just had music playing in the background.  The topic was friends.  I think Podcast 13's suggestion to have Fred's voice heard over those scenes, talking about whatever the topic is, is an excellent idea. I was pretending that Fred's voice was heard and I think it would work.  If it works for Disney and Mayo, why couldn't direct references to Fred work?  With so many episodes of MRN, I'm sure the powers that be could find a few seconds of an original program that dealt with the topic of the new show.  I think there's merit to that idea, Tim and Guy!

I will say that I pleasantly surprised by X's voice. It sounds the closest to any of the voices of the original.
Scott



bka

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2012, 07:48:10 AM »
yes, the Owl-actor has done his homework.  I think given Fred's trinity: music, child-psychology & faith - made sublime by John Costa's musicianship/arrangements - that the faith part is less implicit in DTN, although the kindliness of the characters & the hard-working attempt to make a really good show are there....there's a lot of food-focus too. lots of "yummy" things (add little ubiquitous upbeat giggle after everything).

Jumpman256

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 11:57:55 AM »
Quote
dear jumpman, you can hardly blame yourself. It's clear that ugga-mugga was meant to reference MRN, and instead of our subtlety they are hammering it home and over-using it. Also clear that Angela has appropriated it - all on her own. and probably thought she was doing something endearing and upbeat homage-y.

Well, I appreciate that, bka.  :)

Ya know, I may have a different outlook on this show than some of you--I see it more as a TRIBUTE to Fred's legacy than a continuation.  As you said yourself, bka, the "ugga mugga" seems to be a reference more than anything.  (I'll be fair here, i watched MRN almost every day as a young child--but I only remember, like, one or two episodes with 'ugga mugga' in them, so it's entirely possible (even probable) that I missed the point of the saying, and that it being a reference is insulting to it. I honestly don't know (and don't have the funds right now to buy episodes, so I can't check. ;)]  

I get the distinct impression--from being on her blog a while as I have--that Fred really DID mean something to Angela.  (Of course, it could all be "press emotion," but I detect genuineness. (Especially considering that a Blue's Clues episode about neighborhoods concluded with a small tribute to Fred (it's on Netflix under "Our Neighborhood Festival")  I sense love for Fred all through this show.  Now, is it perfect? No--I agree with some on here about the fact that this show conceds that the NOMB is always real--that should change...though frankly, I have no idea HOW ;) and the fact that, as of yet, bad feelings have just been "swept under the rug" in Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. That's not good either.  But you know what?  I still like the show.  A lot.  I find it a love-fest to the man and his legacy, and I really hope it does well for her. ;)  (Granted, I may be biased, because Blue's Clues is my favorite modern kids show ever, --but I did have geniune concern before I saw the first episode of DTN) ;)

PS: If you want to see another reference -fest tribute episode that Angela dd for one of her OWN shows, pick up "Meet Blue's Baby Brother"--it's one of my favorites. :)

PPS: Uncle X's voice actor is almost spot-on. :)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 12:04:04 PM by Jumpman256 »

mitsguy2001

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2012, 12:03:50 PM »
but I only remember, like, one or two episodes with 'ugga mugga' in them, so it's entirely possible (even probable) that I missed the point of the saying, and that it being a reference is insulting to it. I honestly don't know (and don't have the funds right now to buy episodes, so I can't check. ;)]  

That brings up a very good point.  Since MRN has so many episodes, and most of us only saw a small subset of the episodes, there are many things that some of us may think was common that was actually quite rare, and there are many things that some ofus may think was rare that was actually quite common.  It gives each of us a different perspective of the show, since we all saw different episodes.  For example:

1. I once posted that Betty has a beautiful voice, and she disagreed, saying that Chuck, Maggie, and Francois have better voices than them.  But I saw very few episodes with Chuck, Maggie, or Francois.

2. I have no recollection of Purple Panda, even though it seems he was in quite a few episodes.

3. I was surprised to learn that many people didn't realize the house next door to Fred had the Brown's marionette theater and Francois's studio.  I thought that both locations were used a lot during the series.

4. I thought that Northwood was commonly visited.  I didn't realize that it was the last commonly visited of the "woods".

5. I had no recollection of the fact that there were many episodes where the walls were still beige but the closing song was "Good Feeling".

6. I was surprised to learn that the "Weekend Song" was only used in about 15 episodes or so.

misterrogersismyhero

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2012, 10:05:45 PM »
Speaking as an adult with no children and, therefore, no valid reason to be watching DTN, I have to say that I have watched the episodes and I find the show to be very cute. No, it's not Mister Rogers, but nothing ever could be. I love the references to the original show, the stoplight, the models, the sneakers and hoodie, Mr. McFeeley, and the orginal characters now with children of their own. I'm not sure when King Friday became British, but other than that... I see nothing wrong with teaching children to see the positive in a bad situation. Of course, they are allowed to be sad or angry when the situation warrants, but teaching them to wallow in those feelings and/or to whine about things is not a good idea. Saying, "Yes, I know you feel sad/angry right now, and I understand how you feel. But, instead of staying angry or sad, why don't we try to think of something good about the situation?" Is not the same as saying, "Get over it." Children have to learn to cope with their feelings.
I do wish that more of Mister Roger's original music was used, as his songs seem much more intelligent and meaningful than the current, constantly repeating songs on DTN. I like that Lady Elaine and Miss Elaina use 'toots' and 'boomerang, toomerang' that Hen and Katerina use 'meow meow' and that Daniel and his family use "Ugga Mugga". I don't see the problem that others have with this phrase being used in DTN, and it is always used as an expression of love, just as it always was between Daniel and Lady Aberlin.
I just have one question...Where's Queen Sarah?

Neighborhood Archive

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2012, 08:01:53 PM »
Where's Queen Sarah?

She showed up on today's episode (Fruit Picking Day)

DannyGal

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Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2012, 11:24:15 AM »
Hi there, long time reader, first time poster!  :)

Misterrogersismyhero, I soo agree with you! Like a lot of you I was skeptical when I first heard about this show, and even more so when seeing the commercials "Doesn't look a think like Daniel...this is gonna suck.." but when I saw the actual show...I was sucked in! I thought it was sooooo cute! I think Little Daniel's voice actor has a lot to do with it. The first time I heard him talk I can't help it, my first reaction was 'AWWWWWWWW!!' Just as adorable as his Daddy was when he was a tiger cub. I wanted to HUUUUUUUUUG him!  ;D

And unlike some people here I love the 'Ugga-Mugga'. Like bka said it's a special act of love ...well, who do you love more than your spouse and child?! To me it's only natural that a made-up special sign of love would be shared by the people you love more than anything! So to me it only made sense that when Big Daniel grew up, fell in love, and got married he would share this special act with his wife and later his child. Whenever Big Daniel does the Ugga-Mugga with Little Daniel, I find it so heartwarming. It's like the father is passing on something special to his child. As Fred always said, "There are many ways to say I love you," and that's a very special way!

The only problems I have with this show is the way they changed some of the characters. Lady Elaine Fairchilde was always one of my favorites. I loved her rebellious attitude, that she was sometimes the only one with guts to stand up to the King, the way she always answered back to the King sometimes during his speeches or her aside comments like "La Dee Da" or "This is gonna go on forever!" But here...they turned her into Miss Frizzle! I mean her voiice is all wrong, she's waaaay too perky and jolly! And she never uses her Boomerang! I mean when her daughter's tube bent, she said she couldn;'t fix it?! Girl you got a magic boomerang...use it!

And speaking of the King, they changed HIM too. I mean instead of the Pimpous, self-rightous, long winding speech giving King..they turned him into Old King Cole! I mean the old King Friday wouldn't even consider dancing out of a room he wouldn;t think it was dignified. Here he's using jazz hands?! Since when?!

But those are minor things, the emphasis is on Little Daniel and his family...and he's soo sweet. He's adorable, and after Big Daniel had grown up basically by himself in a clock it's nice to see that he's ended up with a wife that loves him and a son that adores him! I think it's soo heartwarming.