Author Topic: What's the Difference?  (Read 22389 times)

MrRogers143

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What's the Difference?
« on: July 13, 2012, 06:39:49 PM »
Hey, just wonder if there's a difference between the programs from 1968-1976 to 1979-2001?
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mitsguy2001

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 09:24:27 PM »
The 1968-1976 programs were somewhat chronological, and not divided into theme weeks.  Friday and Sara met in 1968, got married in 1969, and had Tuesday in 1970.  From 1970 to 1976, Tuesday and Ana aged.  Since the episodes were not divided into theme weeks, sometimes a story would carryover from one week to the next, which sometimes made scheduling reruns complicated.

The 1979-2001 programs were divided into theme weeks, with very little overlap between weeks.  Also, there was no chronology: Tuesday and Ana were about 5 years old in 1979, and remained the same age in 2001.

Another change is that the 1968-1976 programs frequently featured neighborhood locales, such as Betty's Little Theater.  If there was a guest star, Fred would often meet them at Betty's Little Theater, or other locations.  In the 1979-2001 episodes, these locations, although still seen, played a much smaller role.  There were many more scenes that were shot on location, and not at the studio.

UUrselfRSpecial

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2012, 12:36:59 AM »
The 1968-1976 programs were somewhat chronological, and not divided into theme weeks.  Friday and Sara met in 1968, got married in 1969, and had Tuesday in 1970.  From 1970 to 1976, Tuesday and Ana aged.  Since the episodes were not divided into theme weeks, sometimes a story would carryover from one week to the next, which sometimes made scheduling reruns complicated.

The 1979-2001 programs were divided into theme weeks, with very little overlap between weeks.  Also, there was no chronology:

That's also why a lot of post-75s aired out of order, and when post-75 runs did air in order, there were a lot of interruptions for annual occasion weeks (such as Superheroes for Halloween) and other out of order weeks, which there weren't for pre-79s, except for when they had to interrupt for Starting School and post-75 runs at the appropriate time. However, before 1992, except for July 29 - September 20, 1985 and April 21 - May 2, 1986, there were never out of order pre-79s, just a few switched weeks to avoid broken carryovers. In 1992 - 1995, there were a lot of out of skipped weeks and even some broken carryovers.

Tuesday and Ana were about 5 years old in 1979, and remained the same age in 2001.

Although there were some alterations to the Tuesday and Ana puppets, and Tuesday even had different people voicing him.

Another change is that the 1968-1976 programs frequently featured neighborhood locales, such as Betty's Little Theater.  If there was a guest star, Fred would often meet them at Betty's Little Theater, or other locations.  In the 1979-2001 episodes, these locations, although still seen, played a much smaller role.  There were many more scenes that were shot on location, and not at the studio.

Even though Betty's Little Theatre was seen only once post-75 (1509, Thursday of Friends, my absolute favorite post-75 episode), others that were regular pre-79 locales were seen quite a bit in the post-75s. Brockett's Bakery was seen regularly until 1650, which debuted February 28, 1992 (However, though Brockett died on May 2, 1995, and his last episode I believe was 1690, which debuted September 1, 1995). As for Trow's workshop, I don't remember just when it was last seen (I'm guessing maybe 1528, Wednesday of Work which debuted April 4, 1984), however, if not then, around then, even though Trow didn't die until November 2, 1998, and his dedication episode and last appearance was 1740, which debuted February 19, 1999. And amazingly, the McFeely house wasn't seen so much in the early post-75s, but then was again but not until 1996! But the exterior only, and only in four episodes, all of which debuted in 1996 (1696, 1701, 1706, and 1708). And Negri's music shop was the one that lasted, having been seen regularly until 2001. Interestingly enough, there are two instances of people/locales that are never seen in the post-75s but mentioned as if they are still around. Elsie Neal is mentioned in 1464 (though that is from the first post-75 week), and Audrey Cleans Everything, which was really seen only in a few 1975 episodes, is mentioned in 1506.
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sriv94

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2012, 10:01:16 AM »
and Audrey Cleans Everything, which was really seen only in a few 1975 episodes, is mentioned in 1506.

It's sort of mentioned in 1600 as well.  As the slide viewer shows Audrey, Fred says "Audrey Cleans Everything."
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Lady_Elaine

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 04:30:17 PM »
I grew up watching the original pre-79 shows, and I much prefer those to the more modern series. They seemed more spontaneous and dynamic to me. Like other people mentioned, the major difference in the two series was that in the original 1968-75 series, it was more chronological and sequential, and the 1979-2001 shows had theme weeks which basically were stand-alone each week. Also, a major difference was that in the pre-79 shows, Fred visited many of his neighbors in their "homes" or "businesses". For example, he would often go to the McFeelys' house before 1979, or Bob Trow's shop, or the Brown Marionette Theater, or Francois Clemmon's studio. In the post-79 shows, Fred took many real fieldtrips, to factories, or zoos, but rarely visited the members of the neighborhood in their own settings. Basically after 1979 the only studio sets Fred frequently visited were Brockett's Bakery, the Music Shop, or sometimes Bob Trow's. We never saw the Brown's Marionette Theater or Mr. Clemmons' Studio or inside the McFeely's house after 1979 to my knowledge.

JCostaThePro

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 07:03:41 PM »
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post, but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?

JCostaThePro

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 07:24:25 PM »
And in addition, the pre-79 series rarely had serious weeks, they were mostly just all fun & games here and there.

1101-1105 (obviously), 1416-1420 (the NOM being plunged into darkness due to an energy blow-out) and 1431-1435 (talks about moving) (and if it counts even though it's not so much an episode as much as a special, the RFK assasination special from 1968) are the only instances in the pre-79 era i can think of that dealt with serious situations and/or important life experiences.

But most of the modern era prominently had discussions and/or counseling on serious topics. I can't explain them all, but to name several:

School is about starting school for the first time
Discipline dealt with punishments, getting spanked and keeping promises and oaths
Make-Believe's Tuesday episode dealt with going to the hospital
Food dealt with hunger and suffering from a famine (and interestingly, that week's also infamous for what TVTropes would call it's "radar" moment in 1536 with mothers nursing their babies, complete with 3 human mothers who were seen breastfeeding)
Families had adoption
Kindness & Unkindness was about being respectful and kind to others and how people's feelings are often hurt when somebody's unkind to them
Fathers & Music's Wedsnday episode had a brief discussion on the dangers of keeping wolves for pets the tragedy of letitng them die in captivity
and Then & Now's Thursday episode dealt with death.

And of course, we all know Divorce and Conflict were VERY important weeks in that regard. Strangely, i've not found any episodes that dealt with burglary, teenage runaways nor parental abandonment, so maybe there's some pre-79 week that may deal w/ any of those topics.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 07:27:08 PM by JCostaThePro »

setlori

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »
I was born in 1979 and don't think I watched Mr. Rogers past, say, 1986 or so (well, until I had own my kids and made an investment in Amazon Video on Demand.) So it turns out most of the episodes I remember from my childhood were actually from the pre-79 era. I never realized as a kid just how old most of the episodes were that I was watching. One of the episodes I remember so well was the one where Mr. Rogers messes up icing the cupcake. I had been trying to find that episode for the longest time. I was shocked to recently learn it was from 1969!

I don't know if other kids felt this way, but I always got excited when the series would start over every year. It gave much the same feeling as watching old home movies or flipping through a photo album. I enjoyed watching the courtship and marriage of the King and Queen, the birth of Prince Tuesday, when the "Z" on X's door got turned into an "X" and all the other neighborhood milestones. When he painted the house blue felt like a major transition. I always looked forward to that. I did hate that time in the NOMB just sort of stopped in the later era (unless you were human, of course.) I can appreciate now that it wasn't practical to age puppets, but as a kid I really enjoyed seeing the natural transition of things and people. All of this just reminds me how much I wish I could see those old episodes again!
Lori

mitsguy2001

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 02:10:49 PM »
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post, but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?

Tim: When watching the 1969 episodes, have you noticed which weeks carry over to other weeks?  That would definitely help shed some light on the possible schedules during the early 80s and when the "banned" weeks last aired.

mitsguy2001

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 02:14:03 PM »
I was born in 1979 and don't think I watched Mr. Rogers past, say, 1986 or so (well, until I had own my kids and made an investment in Amazon Video on Demand.) So it turns out most of the episodes I remember from my childhood were actually from the pre-79 era. I never realized as a kid just how old most of the episodes were that I was watching. One of the episodes I remember so well was the one where Mr. Rogers messes up icing the cupcake. I had been trying to find that episode for the longest time. I was shocked to recently learn it was from 1969!

I don't know if other kids felt this way, but I always got excited when the series would start over every year. It gave much the same feeling as watching old home movies or flipping through a photo album. I enjoyed watching the courtship and marriage of the King and Queen, the birth of Prince Tuesday, when the "Z" on X's door got turned into an "X" and all the other neighborhood milestones. When he painted the house blue felt like a major transition. I always looked forward to that. I did hate that time in the NOMB just sort of stopped in the later era (unless you were human, of course.) I can appreciate now that it wasn't practical to age puppets, but as a kid I really enjoyed seeing the natural transition of things and people. All of this just reminds me how much I wish I could see those old episodes again!

Strangely, I was also born in 1979, and I know for sure that I never saw any of the 1969 episodes (the 1970 season is the earliest I ever saw).  Strangely, I do remember when Conflict first aired in November 1983, even though that's around the same time that the 1969 episodes allegedly last aired.

Setlori: since you remember the 1969 season so well, when do you remember seeing it?  Is it only 1001-1030 that you remember?  Did you ever see 1036-1040, 1051-1060 (including the opera in 1055), and 1071-1075?  What about 1031-1035, 1041-1050, and 1061-1065?

itsyouilike

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 03:41:02 PM »
Gotta say I prefer the pre-79 episodes for the most part. If only more were available on amazon.

setlori

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 09:47:41 PM »
mitsguy2001, I don't feel like I remember it so well. I remember watching the major episodes, but any details of those episodes are lost on me. Well, there was the cupcake thing. Mr. Rogers is carefully icing the cupcakes in his calm, Mr. Rogers way, and right when he gets to the end of the three, there's an icing blowout, complete with sound. In response, Mr. Rogers just calmly turns to Chef Brockett and says, "I think I'm going to need another one." As a kid, I found that so hilarious! That's probably a clue as to how young I was when I watched it.

I don't have any recollection of those other episodes, so I can only assume I didn't watch them. My best guess as to when I would have seen the 1969 episodes I did see would have been in the 1983-1985 range. I'm sorry I can't be of more help than that. I'm going to guess it was closer to the 1983 end since I have such vague memories of those episodes, and if I'd been older I think I'd remember them better. Any earlier than 1983 and I would have been too young to remember anything I think.
Lori

mitsguy2001

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 10:05:44 PM »
It seems the cupcake episode you are talking about is 1026.  According to our schedules, that episode last aired on Monday, Jan. 9, 1984.  Does that sound correct to you?  According to our schedules, the following week, they jumped ahead to 1066 (the 1970 season premiere).  I'm guessing that you remember 1001-1030, but you probably either never saw (or don't remember) any of 1031-1065, none of which (we think) aired in 1983-84.  Do you remembera ny of 1031-1065?

What I still don't understand is, if 1001-1030 aired in December 1983 - January 1984, then why did I never see them, despite having vivid memories of seeing Conflict when it first aired in November 1983.

UUrselfRSpecial

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 10:55:12 AM »
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post

No I definitely don't look at this post as outdated. Though I haven't posted on this board in a long time, I still am subscribed to this, and I'm glad that even after a long time of not looking at this post, I'm still subscribed. And I do have things to say about it:



but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

I do know that.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

Even though ironically in that era, the 1969 and 1970 seasons have the longest story arcs of all, the former lasting 6 weeks (1001 - 1030) and the latter, 10! (1076 - 1125, or maybe 1077 - 1124, since I've seen 1076 and 1125 in recent years, and the latter of course is the opera. And in there I know 1101 is self contained)

Incidentally, Joe (mitsguy2001) did this for me  years ago, but I no longer have that e-mail -- without revealing any plot info (I'm hoping all episodes will be available some day, and they're all viewable in the Elizabeth Nesbitt Room in Pittsburgh, where I do plan to go at least a few times to see some of them, so they'd be spoilers), could you list all episodes that are self contained (not counting operas), and all story arcs that aren't exactly 5 episodes? In fact, how about list all story arcs, whether they're 1 or 50 episodes or any in between other than 5 on a Monday - Friday. Here are carryovers I do know of, besides the ones I listed:

1101, as I said, self contained
1141 - 1165 (all deal with the Platypuses' Australia trip, although there are some that don't deal with the trip in there)
1226 - 1240, all the Lady Elaine/Planet Purple story
1251 - 1260, Lady Elaine painting the NOMB purple
I believe I remember hearing that in 1270, Bob Trow mentions something about a telephone "next week," and I never heard of any 1270/1271 interruptions so that could be true.
1274 - 1276, Harriett Cow introduced, Nobody Can Take Your Place. I could be wrong but I think the story starts in 1273 even though she's not introduced until 1274.
I thought I remembered hearing about a 1280/1281 carryover, but I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of a 1280/1281 interruption
1301 - 1315 (but the mystery here is when there would be a 1310/1311 interruption for the 1987 - 88 post-75 run if no week was moved, why 1291 - 1295 was moved to start 1988 and not 1296 - 1300. Maybe that could be because in 1301 - 1305, the opera is mentioned as happening "last week." Amazingly, this means that one more opera would air while Reardon was still alive, while if the opera week had been moved, it would have been the first week to air after his death!!!! But of course that wasn't known at the time that it was scheduled. Another theory could be that they could have thought that since the opera is fall themed, and Daniel's birthday is in April (or rather that's when Daniel made his debut on The Children's Corner on April 5, 1954, and his birthday episode did debut the day after his "19th" birthday and aired on his "31st"), they thought it might make more sense to air the opera in the fall and Daniel's birthday in April. Although amazingly, as for that particular opera, it has only has three other confirmed airings (and one unconfirmed but most likely during the bulk), all of which are in the spring!
1330 - 1335, as you mentioned
1351 - 1360 (or really 1355 - 1360), the Purple Panda story
1376 - 1390, even though though 1386 - 1390 aired three times without 1376 - 1385 in 1993 - 1995. Athough that really is two story arcs, while one makes sense to follow another. 1376 (or maybe 1377) - 1382 (or 1383) is Lady Elaine thinking she's engaged to Corny, while I believe that in 1382, 1383, or 1384, when she realizes the truth about Corny, in 1383 (or 1384) - 1390, she gets over it by starting MGR-TV
1401 - 1410 (or I believe just 1403 - 1407), the trip to Westwood
1411 - 1420 (the energy crisis, but 1416 is the Dentist & Tooth Fairy, self contained and goes to video, and of course doesn't deal with the crisis)
1421 - 1435 (after the opera in 1425, Reardon can't leave the NOMB, and then all of 1426 - 1430 is about travel. Then maybe 1431 - 1435 after that is similar to the 1376 - 1390 situation in that it has to do with moving, and indeed 1430/1431 was avoided for the 1988 - 89 post-75 run. And the reason why I'm sure it's like that situation is that in 1994, they aired 1431 - 1435 before 1421 - 1425 and skipped 1426 - 1430. For whatever reason they felt that latter week wasn't as important as the other two when they were phasing out pre-79s.
1450/1451 could be maybe considered a carryover, since I believe in 1451 they discuss the events in 1456 - 1460.
1453 - 1460, all dealing with Margaret Hamilton and remembering the past to prepare kids for pre-79s resuming with 1001 (and 1066 in 1986 and 1989), so it's really 1453 - 1030. And as for 1450/1451, is that, amazingly, except for during the bulk in 1977, and even in the unconfirmed pre-9/3/84 airings, there was some post-75 interruption shortly before 1456 - 1460, and as for the known (or projected based on what's most likely, such as 1983), all except the end of the bulk in 1979 are 1445/1446 while in 1979, it's the broken carryover of 1455/1456, so none are in between 1450/1451.
So could you please just list all other story arcs (and again not plots), whether 1 or 50 episodes or in between, not listed above for pre-79s, and correct all mistakes I may have with these pre-79s.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

That's crazy! Maybe though it's logical that he could come back for an emergency, then goes back. It's like a business emergency during a vacation.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?
[/quote]

I'm going to make some corrections here and add some others I can think of:
That is true about 1726 vs. 1727 - 1730. But that's not exactly the case with 1506 - 1509 vs. 1510. I know that week very, very well. In 1509, the place that Lady Aberlin and Daniel go to in the rain is the place where they had the picnic, and that's stated. And it's definitely intentional as a followup to 1509, since Lady Aberlin and Daniel's friendship is tested when, having to "come to the castle in two" for the picnic, she forgets him, and in 1510, I'm sure the reason why they show them together as friends is to show that he's forgiven her for what she forgot to do. Also btw, here's a theory as to why the picnic was Thursday and not Friday -- even though it ended up debuting the week before in 1982, it's very possible that when the week was shot, they thought it would debut on Thanksgiving week, and what better way to commemorate Thanksgiving than a picnic of close friends, as it could be like a family Thanksgiving dinner.
Although as for another examples:
1581 - 1585 (Alike & Different): 1585 has nothing to do with Queen Sara and Mayor Maggie switching places for a day, as that story wraps up in 1584. However, Nancy Catterpillar and Darryl Butterfly are seen in 1585, as they are throughout the rest of the week, and the clowns that are in both the circus and the NOMB in 1585 are also seen in both Brockett's and the NOMB in 1584.
The following week, 1586 - 1590 (Nighttime): 1586, 1587, and 1588 are all self contained in the NOMB, and the only thing that makes those episodes a story arc is that they all take place at night, and only 1589 - 1590 make up a story arc. The only thing that really lasts a full week is in the Real Neighborhood, the visit from the people from the Russian TV show. However, even there, it's not the full week, because though the visit is in 1589 and first brought up at the end of 1586, it's not mentioned once in 1588, while ironically, it is mentioned in 1590 has having been in the previous episode!
Though I can think of no other self contained post-75s, there's also a very major flaw in the next-to-last week, Ready to Read (1756 - 1760). There seems to be a whole episode of plot missing between 1757 and 1758. Remember in that week, Friday is curious about the inside of things. He gets a magnifying glass (I think; I haven't seen this week in a long time) and he mentions that he's going to see if the magnifying glass would work), but we never see him try it, or do we ever hear him hear what happened after his trying it. And also, we see Lady Elaine get a mysterious package in 1757, and Fred says that in the next time, we're going to find out what it is. But at the start of the NOMB in 1758, we hear Fred talk about her reading game as if we knew what it was going to be! I do wonder if there was a sixth episode between 1757 and 1758 that was shot by accident.
Nicky

sriv94

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Re: What's the Difference?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 10:08:04 AM »
I thought I remembered hearing about a 1280/1281 carryover, but I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of a 1280/1281 interruption

1281 was the variety show, and 1280 (and the few episodes before it) built up to it (we see Mr. McFeely practicing his tap-dance at Negri's Music Shop, Fred getting the accordion and at the very end, Fred playing it a little to help Mrs. McFeely get the tune for the tap routine).  And 1281 of course had no NOMB segment (I don't remember whether there was a storyline in 1280 that continued into 1282).
Doug
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