Author Topic: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075  (Read 38482 times)

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 11:41:01 AM »
1051-1055 must have aired at some point during the 1976 and beyond reruns as on the review of the episode on the site here it has a photo of the trolley closing with the epiose number.

Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

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I also remember reading a while back that in the week of 1056-1060 there was an episode where Mr. McFeely barges in and steals a puzzle Fred was working on, although that doesn't really seem offensive it is different behavior though. I've always wondered about 1071-1075 as perhaps the lab rats may have been an issue although I imagaine the black and white thing was part of the times as it was shortly after the Martin Luther King assasination and the Democratic Convention riots in Chicago with tension in race relations.

But my point is that it would not be acceptable to treat black people badly, even if you treat white people equally badly.

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What would be interesting is if one or more o those weeks didn't make it into the 1976 reruns then the premiere of 1461 in August 1979 would have interupted a 1969 run.

Although, if all of them aired, the premiere of Starting School would interrupt between 1455 and 1456, which doesn't make much sense either, since in 1456, Fred references "last week".  Also, we know that Superheroes premiered Feb. 4-8, 1980.  Unlike Starting School, that was a completely random week (not even at the right time of year for that episode) that could have aired anytime.  If every banned week continued to air even in 1979, then Superheroes would have interrupted between 1105 and 1106, meaning that Prince Tuesday would go from the womb, to school age, and back to the womb again.  That would have been confusing.  That was the likely reason why Starting School was skipped in 1989.  Assuming the banned weeks all aired in 1976 and 1978, then depending on how many banned weeks aired in 1979, Superheroes would have interrupted after either 1105, 1110, 1115, 1120, or 1125.  None of those are ideal, but since Tuesday was born in 1117, that means a break after 1120 or 1125 would be less confusing.  So even if the banned weeks did air in 1976 and 1978 (as at least some of them likely did), it is unlikely that they all aired in 1979.

Honestly, there are too many combinations, which are going to make this hard to ever figure out, unless someome has specific memories, or unless someone can find old TV listings or news articles about what episodes are airing.  There are too many different combinations.  There is even the possibility that one or more banned weeks aired in 1976 but not 1978.  And then there is the possibility that some weeks aired more than once.  For example, maybe 1261-1265 could have had an extra airing one year aound Christmas.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 05:15:38 PM by mitsguy2001 »

bka

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »
there's nothing but room for misunderstanding here. Hard to know how to be more clear.  Fred based our characters on our true natures, but in perhaps a very strong reaction to his improvisational  work with Josey Carey, all our lines were very strictly scripted.  If he visited a painter or a potter, or Marilyn Barnett came to visit, there was some room for the "gist" of the scene's action, but all Neighbors were held to the scripts, which we memorized. Fred never had to memorize his own lines, because in his television house, he worked off a prompter, and when he worked the puppets, he had a script, and a "pointer", usually Lenny Meledandri (Prince Tuesday), behind the set, to point to the lines he was reading, so that he could more easily distinguish, say, the King's voice from the Queen's if they were interacting.  I personally think there were other reasons for Betty being banished from Reality and relegated to Make-Believe, reasons having nothing to do with the confusion of children.  The model was already there for other neighbors to have Negri's Music Shop or Brockett's Bakery.....Fred exerted complete control. After all, the program is called Mister Rogers' Neighborhood.

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 10:40:25 AM »
Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

Well, the Amazon print of episode 1271 (from 1973) has a long fade-out of the end credits followed immediately by the 1971 PBS logo, with no trolley card.   And I also remember seeing an episode from around 1972 or 1973 at the Paley Center that didn't have a trolley card, but did have the PBS logo.   So that seems to confirm that the trolley cards were not used until at least 1974.    My guess is that they would have debuted in 1975 or early 1976, considering that the early 1969 episodes have the same short version as the 1975-76 ones, and the 1974 Friday episodes have the same long trolley closing as the 1973 ones.

But yes, the trolley card on 1055 indicates that at least that week must have been rerun at some point after 1976, unless they just prepared it for reruns and never showed it.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 11:17:24 AM »
Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

Well, the Amazon print of episode 1271 (from 1973) has a long fade-out of the end credits followed immediately by the 1971 PBS logo, with no trolley card.   And I also remember seeing an episode from around 1972 or 1973 at the Paley Center that didn't have a trolley card, but did have the PBS logo.   So that seems to confirm that the trolley cards were not used until at least 1974.    My guess is that they would have debuted in 1975 or early 1976, considering that the early 1969 episodes have the same short version as the 1975-76 ones, and the 1974 Friday episodes have the same long trolley closing as the 1973 ones.

But yes, the trolley card on 1055 indicates that at least that week must have been rerun at some point after 1976, unless they just prepared it for reruns and never showed it.

That does make sense.  1975 is also my guess as to when they added the trolley card, for the same reasons that you said.  Also, in 1456-1460, Fred openly referred to episodes by their 4 digit episode number, implying that they (and the trolley cards) were in use and familiar to kids at the time.

I doubt that 1051-1055 was prepared for reruns but never reran.  From what I heard, they extensively reviewed and edited the old episodes before the 1976 reruns.  In fact, maybe that is why the 4 digit episode numbers were used, to distinguish them from the unedited versions of those episodes.  For example, Episode 131 would be the original version without the trolley graphic.  Episode 1001 is that same episode with the trolley graphic and possibly other episodes.

It would be interesting for arnyone who has 1456-1460 to count how many tapes are in the collection.  Is all 460 there, or are they missing some.  Also, for example, when he shows the tape of 1062, check to see if it's actually the 62nd tape, or if there are other missing tapes.  I'm pretty sure that there are not any black and white episodes in the collection that is shown.

As for the fact that none of the opera flashbacks ever show 1125, even though they show all of the 1971-75 operas at least once: maybe they had originally intended to pull that week from the rotation, perhaps because of whatever material in 1121 had to be edited out.  And then maybe they later decided that 1125 was too good an episode to lose, so they decided to edit 1121, rather than banning that whole week.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 11:19:13 AM »
I can see the logic in airing 1456-1460 before going into 1970 episodes.   The 1970 season still largely had the same look as 1969, and featured the same "Tomorrow" closing song.   So 1456-1460 could have still been used to prepare children who had never seen earlier episodes for those differences, and for the general idea of going back to older episodes, thus limiting confusion.



That makes sense.  Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2012, 11:25:40 AM »
Okay, having looked at the episode guides, here's my theories on why these episodes may have been phased out:

- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.

Tim: you have that episode.  Did it have any outdated geography?

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  Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

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- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

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By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.

That was just a theory that they last aired in 1978.  I don't think that was ever proven.

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2012, 11:54:43 AM »
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I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

It's tough to say.   It seemed like earlier on, like between 1979 and 1984, they were intent on gradually removing episodes from the rotation, and then they stopped for a while until 1992 when the mass purging of pre-79's started.    In retrospect, I'm surprised that they didn't start the cycle from 1971 back in 1989 - they would have ended up roughly around the same point they skipped to in 1992 anyway.    But I'm glad they didn't go that route, or else I wouldn't have grown up seeing episodes with the NET house, "Misterogers' Neighborhood" logo, and yellow-walled/wainscotting interior.   

Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?

I can see where your logic is coming from, but I guess those things weren't put into consideration at the time. 

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Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

Oh, okay, then maybe that wasn't a factor.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 04:31:29 PM »
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I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

It's tough to say.   It seemed like earlier on, like between 1979 and 1984, they were intent on gradually removing episodes from the rotation, and then they stopped for a while until 1992 when the mass purging of pre-79's started.    In retrospect, I'm surprised that they didn't start the cycle from 1971 back in 1989 - they would have ended up roughly around the same point they skipped to in 1992 anyway.    But I'm glad they didn't go that route, or else I wouldn't have grown up seeing episodes with the NET house, "Misterogers' Neighborhood" logo, and yellow-walled/wainscotting interior.

Actually, exactly the same place.  Remember, they aired 12 weeks of 1970 episodes.  And after 1991, they skipped 12 weeks of 1973 and 1974 episodes.  I wonder why they skipped so many.  Even if they wanted to avoid the beige walls, they could have just started with 1336 (I think 1331-1335 continues a story from 1326-1330).  I wonder if there was some funding reason why they had to skip so many episodes.  Or, if they just wanted to limit the pre-79s anyway, and maybe none of 1326-1350 made the cut (just like 1396-1400, 1411-1415, 1416-1420, and 1441-1445 aparently didn't make the cut either).    

Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?

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I can see where your logic is coming from, but I guess those things weren't put into consideration at the time.  

Now that I think of it: I had suggested on another thread that maybe Episodes 1-5 were never reran, because they were designed to introduce kids who watched the EEN episodes to the national episodes.  However, they probably did air, just like 1001-1005 and 1066-1070 kept airing.

Remember, 1001-1005 was designed to introduce kids who watched the black and white episodes to the color episodes, by having the Froggs move away, painting the museum, Sara moving in, etc.  However, it kept airing long after the black and white episodes stopped airing.  Similarly, as I mentioned, 1066-1070 was designed to introduce kids who saw the 1969 season to the 1970 season.  It introduced the NOM models, and the concept of actors (such as Bob Trow) appearing as themself.  However, as I said, 1066-1070 continued airing long after the 1969 season stopped airing.

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Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

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Oh, okay, then maybe that wasn't a factor.

Although, maybe the issue was the bad behavior, rather than the cage.

rogersfan1

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 07:10:26 PM »
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?

My guess is that they probably would have somehow edited the offending material, like they did in 1121 and 1696.  Although, by 1976, the set looked very different than it did in 1969 and 1970, so I don't know what they would have done if the material was in the television house or the NOM.  If it was short, they may have just replaced it with a picture picture video, which seems to be what they did in 1121.  But I don't know what they would have done if it was a major part of the episode, like in 1696.  I also wonder if, maybe as a last resort, if they could have spliced together the real neighborhood portion of one existing episode with the NOM from another episode.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2012, 11:25:06 AM »
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?

Come to think of it, 1036-1040 is somewhat important plot-wise, since it's when King Friday first meets the Platypus family.  The description says that King Friday has a cold, so he goes to Dr. Bill for a checkup.  Since the king and queen returned from their honeymoon in 1030, I'm not sure how he didn't notice the platypus family in 1031-1035.

I wonder what would have happened if someone in the NOM had a medical problem after Dr. Frogg left but before Dr. Bill arrived.  I guess they were out of luck, or had to go to Westwood.

rogersfan1

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 01:21:38 PM »
Another thing that I saw listed in an episode description from the 1071-1075 week had Bob Dog actually being locked in a cage as opposed to wearing one on his head, which may have been a factor although I wonder if hisfirst appearance was supposed to be a significant plotline. It seemed that Bob Dog in his first year was rather wild with the cage on his head and a few where he barks at the trolley. Also, what was the plan and play book mentioned?

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 09:23:01 AM »
Tim: you have that episode.  Did it have any outdated geography?

Not that I recall. They did "visit" various parts of the world as part of the story but I don't recall anything that would be considered outdated geography.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2012, 11:02:47 PM »
Also, what was the plan and play book mentioned?

Since nobody answered, I'll take a guess at it.  I've never seen the Plan and Play book, but I've been told that it gave a description and activities for every color episode of the series, except for 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075.  I've also been told that as late as 1995, it still went all the way back to 1001 (except for the 4 banned weeks), even though those early pre-79s were obviously never going to air again.  That is what lead me to think that 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075 had content issues, given that they were always excluded from the book.  I guess maybe since they already wrote descriptions for all other episodes, they kept them in the book, but never bothered to write activities for those 4 weeks.

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