Author Topic: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075  (Read 37786 times)

mitsguy2001

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Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« on: April 29, 2012, 09:09:07 PM »
I have heard that there were 3 weeks of episodes from the 1969 season (1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060), and 1 week from the 1970 season (1071-1075) that were omitted from the Plan and Play book, and stopped airing long before the rest of those seasons last aired.  I know for sure that 1071-1075 did not air the last 2 times the 1970 season aired (in the summers of 1986 and 1989), and I was told that it also did not air in 1984.  Does anyone know when those 4 weeks last aired?  Also, does anyone know why those 4 weeks stopped airing long before the rest of those seasons?  These 4 weeks include Episode 1055, the teddy bear / whaling ship opera.

A few theories I have are:

1. Maybe they had content that Fred later found objectionable?  I know 1051-1055 has fishing, and 1075 has lab rats.  But Johnny Costa's mother gave Fred a meat pie in 1455, and that week aired as late as 1994 (again, maybe it was too important to skip).

2. Maybe there was some outdated info in those episodes?  Maybe 1055 mentioned a nation that no longer exists?

3. Maybe they were considered less important or less popular than other episodes?  As newer episodes were created, these were retired?

4. Maybe the tapes were damged or are low quality?

5. Maybe these episodes were planned but never created?  But that is unlikely, since Betty Aberlin (from other posts) seems to remember 1055.

Thanks.  I've been curious about these episodes for years.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 02:00:36 PM by mitsguy2001 »

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 10:42:56 AM »
1055 definitely exists - there's an entry for it with pictures here.  I have little reason to doubt that the others do.    Another theory I've heard was that these episode prominently featured characters that acted a little different than they would later, such as Mr. McFeely and Bob Dog, and they thought the character differences would unnerve viewers.   

But it's also possible that Fred and company were simply planning to gradually phase out episodes all along, and perhaps by 1983-84 there were enough new post-79 episodes that they could take 4 particularly dated weeks of pre-79's out.

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 11:00:15 AM »
Okay, having looked at the episode guides, here's my theories on why these episodes may have been phased out:

- 1036-1040 may very likely have been phased out because of Dr. Penn Lupovich's appearances.

- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.   Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 11:06:13 AM by mjb1124 »

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 11:17:46 AM »
Quote
- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.   Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

As far as I know, 1031-1035, 1041-1045, 1046-1050, and 1061-1065 were also uneventful, but they were included in the Plan and Play book, and probably aired during at least the late 70s (maybe even early 80s), but probably not in 1983 or 1984.  So I don't think 1056-1060 being "banned" is because it was uneventful.

Quote
- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

That could be.  Or maybe because of the lab rats.  I also read that supposedly, Fred comments that one rat was white and the other was black, but that they are equal.  That may have been judged to be offensive.

Quote
By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.

Although, in 1456, Fred refers to "last week", so it doesn't really make sense for there to be a break between 1455 and 1456.  Though maybe back then, maybe they didn't care about that too much.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 02:02:10 PM by mitsguy2001 »

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 03:31:29 PM »
Yeah, those are all plausible scenarios.   In any case, it does stand to reason that they may have all contained content that made Fred, other cast members, and/or the viewers uncomfortable, and thus they were taken out of the rotation as soon as there were enough post-79's to make up for them.

bka

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 08:22:46 AM »

as for why the Wizard of Lupovich episodes may have been taken out of the cycle: I think Fred wanted the concepts of "magic" excised. He had explained "witches" in the Maggie Hamilton episodes, but he had no chance regarding wizards, and was more and more editing out the whimsey and bringing in the factual.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 06:05:21 AM by bka »

Neighborhood Archive

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 09:18:09 AM »
this kind of information posted, and these kinds of personal speculations make me sick.  I respectfully ask that they be taken off this site.

Members of this board have the ability to edit their own posts and remove content. I think this request to have some of the more personal content and suggestions removed should be honored. I would like give everyone the opportunity to edit their own posts as necessary rather than me stepping in and wiping out all of this thread.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 12:29:28 PM »
this kind of information posted, and these kinds of personal speculations make me sick.  I respectfully ask that they be taken off this site.

Members of this board have the ability to edit their own posts and remove content. I think this request to have some of the more personal content and suggestions removed should be honored. I would like give everyone the opportunity to edit their own posts as necessary rather than me stepping in and wiping out all of this thread.

I removed the offending material from my post.  Sorry; I didn't mean to offend anyone or make anyone uncomfortable.  I'll be more careful in the future.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 12:34:46 PM »
and as for why the Wizard of Lupovich episodes may have been taken out of the cycle: I think Fred wanted the concepts of "magic" excised. He had explained "witches" in the Maggie Hamilton episodes, but he had no chance regarding wizards, and was more and more editing out the whimsey and bringing in the factual.

Do you know when that episode (and the others mentioned in this thread) last aired?  Were there any later episodes that were edited, rather than removed?  Did the other episodes mentioned in this thread also contain magic that made Fred uncomfortable?  Why was Fred ok with magic such as Lady Elaine's boomerang?  Maybe since Lady Elaine was a puppet, and was clearly not real.

Since aparently the decision to excise magic was made prior to 1975 (when the Margaret Hamilton episodes first aired), maybe 1036-1040 never reran at all during the mid-late 70s.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 05:56:20 PM »
In Episode 37 from the 1968 season, it said that Fred gets angry about Mr. McFeely's smoking.  I wonder if maybe Mr. McFeely smoked on camera in the early episodes.  Or if it was only 37 that he smoked.  Or if he never actually smoked on camera.  If Mr. McFeely did smoke, then I wonder if maybe he could have smoked on camera in 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, or 1071-1075.  Not that Fred necessarily wanted to completely remove smoking (since supposedly somebody smokes a cigar in 1014, which aired in 1983), but maybe kids who knew Mr. McFeely as a non-smoking character might be unnerved to suddenly see him smoking.

The other mystery is why 1396-1400, 1411-1415, 1416-1420, and 1441-1445 never aired during the 90s.  Maybe that is also wanting to remove magic.  I know that 1416 has the tooth fairy.  Also, 1411-1415 and 1417-1420 are about an energy crisis, which was more relevant in the 70s than it was in the 90s.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 09:23:04 PM »
The last 2 weeks of pre-79s (1451-1460) contain a lot of flashbacks to very old episodes (mostly from the 1969 season).  However, none of the flashbacks are to any of the 4 banned weeks.  I wonder if that could be a hint that they did not air at all after 1976.  Or, another possibility is that maybe they wanted to be sure to air all of the weeks that were flashed back to.  Strangely, none of the episodes (pre-79 or post-75) that show opera flashbacks ever show a flashback to 1125, even though that week was never banned.  I wonder why.

I'm kind of surprised that 1456-1460 aired in 1986 and 1989, when the 1970 season aired but the 1969 season did not.  With the 1969 season not airing,  you see almost none of the episodes that were flashed back to.  Also, part of the intention of 1456-1460 was to prepare kids for seeing Lady Aberlin and Handyman Negri in the real world, interacting directly with Fred (as opposed to the real-life Betty Aberlin and Joe Negri), which happened only in the 1969 season, not the 1970 season.

For that matter, I'm surprised that 1066-1070 aired in 1986 and 1989.  Part of the purpose of that week was to teach kids that Bob Trow (and maybe Betty Aberlin and Joe Negri) are real people, and to introduce their real-life characters to the kids.  However, anyone who had been watching the later MRN seasons (and not the 1969 season) would already know that.  Also, that week introduced the NOM models (such as the clock, castle, etc), which kids would have already been familiar with, seeing them in later seasons.  Also, in that week, they said that Lady Elaine would open a pie stand "next week".  But with 1071-1075 not airing, we never saw "next week".  So it may have made more sense to start with 1076.  Also, for what it's worth, 1066-1070 has a different traffic light (the one used in 1969) and possibly a different model neighborhood, so there was likely a break in production sometime before 1076, making it a more logical place to start.

Also, if I am remembering right, 1066 has a possible double entendre.  If I remember right, Robert Troll is upset, because King Friday is "busy".  We know that 2 weeks later, Queen Sara finds out she's pregnant.

mjb1124

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 12:58:00 AM »
I can see the logic in airing 1456-1460 before going into 1970 episodes.   The 1970 season still largely had the same look as 1969, and featured the same "Tomorrow" closing song.   So 1456-1460 could have still been used to prepare children who had never seen earlier episodes for those differences, and for the general idea of going back to older episodes, thus limiting confusion.


bka

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 06:15:37 AM »
because "Betty Aberlin" was scripted in the Neighborhood of Reality, even she was a character distinct from the actor. Fred used our names, even in Make-Believe (the exception being David Newell, although he got to be "David" McFeeley). Betty was phased out of the Reality segments (ditto Betty's Little Theater) and relegated to Make-Believe, as Lady Aberlin. Other guests got to "be themselves" to a greater extent. Then Fred's insistence that he was a "real person" called our authenticity somehow into question, as though to be our true selves would be like coloring outside the lines in one of those books children crayon in.

rogersfan1

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 10:25:25 AM »
1051-1055 must have aired at some point during the 1976 and beyond reruns as on the review of the episode on the site here it has a photo of the trolley closing with the epiose number. I also remember reading a while back that in the week of 1056-1060 there was an episode where Mr. McFeely barges in and steals a puzzle Fred was working on, although that doesn't really seem offensive it is different behavior though. I've always wondered about 1071-1075 as perhaps the lab rats may have been an issue although I imagaine the black and white thing was part of the times as it was shortly after the Martin Luther King assasination and the Democratic Convention riots in Chicago with tension in race relations. What would be interesting is if one or more o those weeks didn't make it into the 1976 reruns then the premiere of 1461 in August 1979 would have interupted a 1969 run.

mitsguy2001

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Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 11:20:49 AM »
because "Betty Aberlin" was scripted in the Neighborhood of Reality, even she was a character distinct from the actor. Fred used our names, even in Make-Believe (the exception being David Newell, although he got to be "David" McFeeley). Betty was phased out of the Reality segments (ditto Betty's Little Theater) and relegated to Make-Believe, as Lady Aberlin. Other guests got to "be themselves" to a greater extent. Then Fred's insistence that he was a "real person" called our authenticity somehow into question, as though to be our true selves would be like coloring outside the lines in one of those books children crayon in.

That is interesting.  I always wondered how scripted the real neighborhood scenes were, and whether or not "Betty Aberlin", "Bob Trow", and "Joe Negri" in those scenes were similar to their real life personalities.  Were "Bob Trow" and "Joe Negri"'s scenes also scripted?  Were there supposedly real neighborhood characters also very different from their real life counterparts?  I am guessing that the real neighborhood "Betty Aberlin" scenes were eventually phased out since they confused kids into thinking that they were based on your real-life personality.