The Neighborhood Archive Forum

Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood => Episodes => Topic started by: UUrselfRSpecial on September 03, 2012, 03:52:09 PM

Title: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: UUrselfRSpecial on September 03, 2012, 03:52:09 PM
So I saw the premiere of Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. Here's what I have to say about it:

Of course there's no way it can ever be MRN. It's very differently structured, and to me feels just like another kids' show, and the way they handle certain topics is handled in a much younger, and less sophisticated way than on MRN. But still, it was very good, and very impressive of how much they can keep MRN characters and both the NOMB (and Fred's home too) for today's kids. Here's how I felt about all that:

First, I don't think that this Daniel Tiger is supposed to be MRN Daniel's son, as the FRC website and other sources have suggested. His father is only known Dad Tiger; we don't know that his first name is Daniel. As for other characters:

Amazing that the prince is Prince Wednesday! So this means that all days of the week have been used for MRN characters now except Sunday! I wonder if Sunday could come up. And his father is King Friday, and he looks like King Friday! So this means that unlike in the Daniel situation, there's nothing suggesting that he divorced Sara and married another person who's Wednesday's mother. However, since we don't know the queen's name, maybe it is Queen Sara, and Wednesday could be Tuesday's brother, not half brother. Yes, Tuesday would now be 42 years old, and Wednesday is probably 6 (the age Prince Tuesday I believe was for all the post-75s), but since the post-75 era is 22 years old, and they started 9 years after Tuesday was born rather than 6, there's no real time in the NOMB. And I didn't get enough look at Wednesday's mother, since she was only seen for an instant, so I couldn't tell whether she looked like MRN Queen Sara. Is she indeed supposed to be Queen Sara, and if she's not (or none of you know for sure), do you think she looks like her?

It's amazing that there's an O the Owl as well as X! I'm wondering if just maybe they were thinking not just Xs and Os, tic tac toe, hugs and kisses, etc., but also OCS! I would so not be surprised, since that's all letters starting with O. And the cat was Caterina! Not remotely like Henrietta, but more like Catalion (in the Audrey Duck puppets and seen in 1576 - 1580 as well as a lot of pre-79s). I think they should have instead thought of a name more like Henrietta.

Miss Elena being Lady Elaine's daughter was a a surprise! And the question is why make her black? Who would her father be? Francois Clemmons? (I can't think of any other black man). I also wondered if just maybe, they At first, since Lady Elaine didn't appear in the first episode, it took me a while to figure it out, until I realized what MRN name Elena is close to. In fact, with her being black, I was thinking of maybe her somewhat  the equivalent of Princess Zelda (especially because of 1626 - 1630 (Mouths & Feelings) when it's discovered that she's the cousin of Princess Ella, who's supposed to be Cinderella. Everyone remember that?) And she didn't seem to be showing any signs of mischief like Lady E always did. But then I knew it for sure when she said "toots." I'm sure once we get to know Miss Elena's mother, we'll see Lady E's old mischievous ways!

About the bakery in the birthday episode, I'm sure a lot of you may be thinking it's very different from Brockett's, but if you think that, you could be wrong. I think it did have the look of Brockett's on the inside, and even though the baker wasn't remotely like Don Brockett(what was his name, Baker Baker? I didn't catch it but it sounded like that), he did have a Hispanic look, so I'm wondering if just maybe they were thinking the people who worked at Jose Cisneros and Sergio Pinto! I so wouldn't be surprised about that. Also, one interesting thing was that though there was a yellow building (which was the model pan for Brockett's), that's not the building they went to! When I first saw that yellow building, I was really thinking they would! And as for the school, how great that the teacher is Miss Harriett, even if not a cow. And as for the doctor's, what an interesting twist to name her Dr. Ana! Though she wasn't a platypus, it's like she's following in her father's footsteps! I'll bet if Dr. Bill had a son, they'd name the doctor after him! One thing that's too bad about the school is that we won't have an "Ana, Prince, and Daniel" since the first of those three is an adult (unless she has a daughter?) Also, of all the toys Daniel was packing in his backpack to take to school, I was almost expecting him to pack MRN Daniel's signature toy, a truck! I was a bit surprised and disappointed to see that he didn't! And it's interesting that one could say that for both shows, a school is featured in what could be thought of as a series premiere, since the post-75s could be thought of as one series.

As for other characters, I'm still wondering if there's going to be a Lady Aberlin, Chuck Aber, Joe Negri, Bob Trow, Maggie Stewart, and Audrey Roth figure, as well as Negri's Music Shop, Trow's workshop, and maybe even Betty's Little Theatre.  But I did notice a Mr. McFeely!!!!!!! Since he does still work at FRC, I wonder if just maybe David Newell will voice him!!!!! Since he looked like him, I would so bot be surprised! And for that matter, I wonder if just maybe Betty Aberlin, Joe Negri, Chuck Aber, Maggie Stewart, and Audrey Roth will make appearances. Somehow I don't think Betty would.

And nice to have similar opening and closing songs to MRN's, and the "it's you I like" line in the Good Feeling song!

All of you who saw the premiere today, what do you think of what I had to say about it, and what do you all think about it?
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on September 03, 2012, 06:16:54 PM
Nicky -- It's been well publicized all along that Daniel Tiger is intended to be the son of the Daniel Striped Tiger from MRN. Essentially, this is supposed to be the next generation of the Neighborhood of Make-Believe. Considering this information has come straight from the FRC in their press releases -- and they're the people behind the show -- I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to assume Dad Tiger and Daniel Tiger are one in the same.

As for the father of Miss Elaina -- we'll meet Music Man Stan in a future episode.

For what little information is available about the DTN characters, take a look at that section on the archive site. It might be able to answer some of your questions.

http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/dtn/
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: JAO93 on September 03, 2012, 06:59:46 PM
I saw the premiere earlier today, I felt it wasn't as bad as other programs that air (Barney anyone? Euuuggggh.). The way the NOMB was redone was a bit off-putting, with many minor-but-still-important landmarks such as Corny's factory and Grandpere's tower nowhere in sight (unless I missed something). Then again, it seems this series uses whatever they like from the NOMB array instead of keeping in continuity with the original MRN. Characters were okay, but much has yet to be introduced. Not a big fan of the Flash animation, but the designs are cute enough to get by.

I have little doubt it will appeal to it's age group well, it looks cute and teaches fairly basic lessons well enough, but it just doesn't have that universal appeal MRN had. I understand it's geared for younger children and the different times, so this was to be expected.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: pastorscott on September 03, 2012, 09:39:19 PM
I noticed that David Newell voiced the opening sponsor "thank you" credits.
My critique is similar to the ones already posted.  My 3 year old like it a lot; my 4 year old said he'd rather watch MRN, so we watched an episode tonight before bed.
Teacher Harriett and Doctor Ana...two more nods to the old show.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Paul on September 03, 2012, 10:13:51 PM
Yep, me again :)

Well, it's here at last and while I'm tempted to just keep my mouth shut I'll tell the truth:
I am greatly impressed and grateful for the quality of the show. Wonderful production, cute characters, fun songs and storylines, and, although I think Fred would have cringed, a sincere effort to incorporate positive messages and problem solving. I salute FRC and the other producers for creating a wonderful new children's program of such outstanding quality. I will admit that it is even better than I expected in that regard.

My only hang-up:
I agree that they should not and could not create a "new" Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. If the object wasn't to create a new generation of the Neighborhood of Make-believe portion of Mister Rogers Neighborhood, then why do they include so many things from it and market it as "Come back to the Neighborhood of Make-Believe." Why did they use characters, places, and phrases from the original show? From what I've seen, the philosophies, ways of expressing feelings, communication, love, etc, of Fred Rogers are not imbedded in the show (“it’s okay to be disappointed,” etc), not that that's bad, they're just not there. Between the format, style, dialogue, plots, songs, and fast pace, it felt (not surprisingly) a whole lot more like Blues Clues and SuperWhy than anything Mister Rogers. When they say "based on the legacy of Fred Rogers" it can't mean that legacy, so it must mean the characters/neighborhood he created. As far as making an animated show based on the Neighborhood of Make-Believe, I wouldn't recommend it, but I think it would be possible if done very carefully with the insight of the neighbors from the original show who are still alive. They have obviously made efforts to incorporate things from the original show. If it was someone creating a video based on their memory from watching it as a kid, that's about what I would expect as far as things included and how they are creatively incorporated. But a profession company creating a series "based on the legacy of Fred Rogers" with access to all the episodes, I would expect more effort and more included. If they are going to include parts of Make-believe then they need to be true them. If you not going to make the characters act like the original ones, don’t call them “the original.” Include some of the other neighbors who are still alive in addition to adding new ones. A clock factory? Um… what about Corny? What about the Daniel Striped Tiger living in the Clock. Doctor Anna and Teacher Harriet… people? When if they had gone back and watched the crystal ball episodes, they would know that Ana becomes a children’s doctor. That would be really amazing if they could make those kind of connections, just like the show did in its decades of production. Now, realistically I would not expect someone to create a show like that, so then just let the timeless characters and places of the Neighborhood of Make-believe be themselves and create a new series with wonderful new characters.

It reminds me of The Boxcar Children book series. The first nineteen books were written by Gertrude Chandler Warner and were of caliber and style that couldn’t be written by someone else. The characters aged through the course of the series with intricate connections between books and lots of fun details about their lives. The new books (20-130 and counting) are a wonderful series in and of themselves but use characters completely different from the originals, suddenly ten years younger and non aging but with same names, and often get glaring facts wrong (i.e. they’ve “never been on a train” when they live on one during one of the original books, their great-aunt who is in her 80s suddenly is portrayed as being 25! etc.). Wonderful books, but with a completely different style and key parts differing glaringly from the originals. Why not just create a whole different series? And yet the only author credit is “created by Gertrude Chandler Warner” as if to say (though I’m sure intended as a tribute) that she would have written this kind of book or at least approved of it as her work. I see striking parallels with DTN. If they’re not creating a new Neighborhood of Make-Believe then don’t. Keep it the same (of course with some small changes as would be necessary if Fred was still alive and started it again) or don’t mess with it. And don’t say “based on the legacy of Fred Rogers” unless it’s really his full legacy as he would have approved of.

Well, it is what is and I guess I’ll just do what I do with the Boxcar Children and pretend it is a different series. I’ll focus on “find(ing) the good” but remember that it’s okay to be disappointed and that “the truth will make [me] free.” Thanks for letting me express my feelings! Don’t get me wrong, I love the new show in and of itself and commend FRC and the other producers for their great efforts. It will be a good thing despite its weaknesses.


May you all have a belle nuit in your neighborhood,
Paul
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on September 04, 2012, 06:40:56 AM
Please take no offense if you have used this phrase (I've used it myself a few times) but I think it's way too easy to say "Fred would have this..." and "Fred would have that..." It's easy to justify opinions when it's felt that there would have been "support" from the person behind all of these characters -- but when that person is someone most of us never had the opportunity to meet outside of our childhood visits to the Neighborhood via television, do we really have the right to assume what Fred Rogers would have thought or done in a given situation?

I stand by my opinion that no one is a better judge of and spokesperson on behalf of Fred's opinions than his wife. If Joanne Rogers says he would have approved, I'm good with that.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 04, 2012, 09:06:04 AM
Daniel & Father Tiger with no pants, a coloring book printout of Daniel described as creative, merchandising to children, instant "lemons-to-lemonade" behavior modification, euphemisms like "disappointment" (next will be problems changed to challenges, and sorrows into opportunities) - Tony the Tiger ("grrrreat" ad biz) "grrific", a British King Friday ("jolly good"), intrusive little promo ads, no spiritual component, no Costa, no jazz....but it doesn't matter.. the brand has pre-sold it, and the parents (indoctrinated and touched to the heart as children) will be happy to give this cheery little offshoot to their own Littles. Squished cakes & squashed balls and the reverse of cartoons introducing "live" segments....I shouldn't rise to this bait, but since Fred will be turning in his crypt, I dare to say he would never have approved.  The inmates are running the asylum now. I'm not good with that, but I'm powerless. My 97 year old mother, a teacher of young children, now age 97, said she did hope that the Aberlin name would not be anywhere in it. I'm good with that.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: mitsguy2001 on September 04, 2012, 06:39:28 PM
Please take no offense if you have used this phrase (I've used it myself a few times) but I think it's way too easy to say "Fred would have this..." and "Fred would have that..." It's easy to justify opinions when it's felt that there would have been "support" from the person behind all of these characters -- but when that person is someone most of us never had the opportunity to meet outside of our childhood visits to the Neighborhood via television, do we really have the right to assume what Fred Rogers would have thought or done in a given situation?

I stand by my opinion that no one is a better judge of and spokesperson on behalf of Fred's opinions than his wife. If Joanne Rogers says he would have approved, I'm good with that.

Has Joanne come forward and said that Fred would have approved of the show?  If so, what exactly did she say about it?
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Paul on September 04, 2012, 07:08:45 PM
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: galenfott on September 04, 2012, 08:12:28 PM
I haven't seen the show yet, and I know nothing about Joanne Rogers, so this is NOT a comment on her. I only want to generally say that, considering the type of projects Audrey Geisel has authorized from Dr. Seuss's works, I'm not sure widows are automatically the best judges of what their genius husbands would have sanctioned.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on September 04, 2012, 09:15:34 PM
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: JAO93 on September 04, 2012, 11:18:32 PM

Has Joanne come forward and said that Fred would have approved of the show?  If so, what exactly did she say about it?

I found this.
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12246/1258264-67.stm
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: silentxero on September 10, 2012, 12:44:10 AM
BKA,
   No offense, but I don't really understand your criticism over some of the things you've pointed out. The "lemons to lemonade" example is probably
the main one. For example, the birthday episode when DT's cake gets smushed; what's he supposed to do? Whine about for 10 minutes like the original
Daniel did. I mean seriously, stuff happens and we just have to deal with it and make the best of it. I do want to emphasize that the show lacks....well, YOU.
I mean, they have supportive characters (Daniel actually has parents and doesn't live alone in the clock), but still he doesn't have that CLOSE/BEST friend
that's he was always able to confide in with everything. Otherwise, I think the show is really cute (except Hen's kid still does that "Meow Meow" crap which
always,ALWAYS drove me up the wall. Yeah, I know it was Fred doing the voice, but..... never mind. And honestly these characters are so much cuter than those ugly puppets (well, except Lady Elain), and no platypus'; Anna was always the ugliest, but then again...it was a platypus so I guess there was no way to actually make a cute puppet for Anna, as well as her parents. Okay, I'm thinking way too much about this now. I'm tired, so please forgive me. It's time to sleep.     
Take care BKA!
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 10, 2012, 10:31:27 AM
I'm thinking too much about DTN, and it's not good for my health. like the old saw about anger being like "drinking poison & waiting for the other person to die."

Went to Angela's site and saw that she also uses UGGA-MUGGA! the way people use Have a Nice Day!. next will come a little tiger icon to go with it, and your own contributions to PBS will help them sell you the cool "swag" (the term she uses). She has that mini skirt sex&thecity veronica lake vibe - & as has been said "there's no arguing with success".  By using/abusing "ugga mugga" a subliminal association with the Lady Aberlin character & her love for the Daniel puppet is evoked inside the empty travesty of all we stood for, pirating the template in the name of the "new!"

"snap out of it!" and "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about!" are the kinds of parenting we tried to model alternatives to. now the healthier alternatives are being reduced to slogans for tender Littles, to be imprinted while the bright colors on the screen beguile their eyes.

Fred was (& I unfortunately am) of the Perfectionist tribe, and after Margaret McFarland, his trusted advisor, died, I often raised the kinds of questions that Lady Elaine had had the nerve to raise with King Friday. What was just criticism was taken into consideration. For a salary of peanuts, I was not about to participate in anything I did not wholeheartedly believe in - in terms of what Fred called our Mission.  marketing to families was not part of that, and it was with reluctance that Fred o.k.'d any of the MRN products that began to be made available.

you can see the good intentions that went into DTN, and you can see the motivation - that FRC having rebranded itself with a logo entirely distinct from the words Family Communications - would hope to continue good works in Fred's name.  And that the suits & workers of FRC would continue to have jobs, and to adorn themselves with the accomplishments of those who went before.

which Commandment is it that says "Thou Shalt Not Steal"?   that's the commandment that is broken by DTN in the opinion of this Neighbor.

Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: mitsguy2001 on September 10, 2012, 11:43:52 AM
Betty's point is that kids need to have their feelings validated.  Telling a kid to "grow up" or "get over it" or "be a man (or woman)" doesn't help kids.  Kids get over things at their own speed.  Not every situation is as simple as a smashed cake.  Other things in life are more complex to deal with, and you can't expect a kid to get over instantly.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Paul on September 10, 2012, 05:58:50 PM
"There's no "should" or "should not" when it comes to having feelings. They're part of who we are and their origins are beyond our control. When we can believe that, we may find it easier to make constructive choices about what to do with those feelings."
"Confronting our feelings and giving them appropriate expression always takes strength, not weakness... It takes strength to face our sadness and to grieve and let our grief and our anger flow in tears when they need to. It takes strength to talk about our feelings and to reach out for help and comfort when we need them."             --- Fred Rogers

http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/music/songs/truth_will_make_me_free.html (http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/music/songs/truth_will_make_me_free.html)

When Mr. Bulldog tells Josephine to do "five smiles in one standing while looking up into the sky," she doesn't just try it and "ta-da, problem solved!" She does overcome her problem, but its not just "'count to 4" and poof! problem solved...

Etc, etc, etc... Shall I go on?

I guess these are a few examples of why I don't think Fred would have approved of it.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: JAO93 on September 10, 2012, 06:47:47 PM
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 10, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
Paul? yes. yes. yes. exactly. thanks.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: pastorscott on September 10, 2012, 10:06:32 PM
I've done a lot of thinking about this subject for the past week, attempting to figure out how to feel about this new show.  I think the recent Podcast was helpful and suggested some positive improvements that could be made (maybe the FRC people listen to the podcast?).  But, Betty's comments and the discussion of those comments, on this thread and one other, have made think how much I don't like this show.

I think the adults are getting excited about the show because of the nostalgic connection, and they will get their kids to watch the show. But this show betrays Fred's depth concerning feelings.  I can't stand the jingles and the superficial life lessons.  Other than a few songs and props, I don't see how this show really furthers Fred's legacy. 

The episode I watched today had Daniel and Elaina make a cardboard rocketship.  Now, that's something Fred would do, encourage us to make our own toys (like our own shoebox trolley).  But it's the overall lack of depth concerning how complex emotional problems are dealt with concerns me.  I think the Ugga-Mugga slogan is just a symptom of the problem.  The creators don't seem to understand the depth of some of these important parts of the original, and then they turn them into trite slogans.  The Entertainment Weekly review captured some of those concerns (thanks, Betty, for sharing the link).  I can deal with the King Friday "jolly good" character (which I don't like), and the Lady Elaine makeover, but it's the original premise which is now made trite.  I can understand why Betty is so upset about this show.  Pretending to build on Fred Rogers' legacy, it betrays the principles she and others devoted their professional careers (and lives) to proclaim.

I realize that the show is aimed at 2-4 year olds, but if they're using  Fred's name, which they are, then they're  betraying his deeply-held ideas concerning children and feelings.  I'm not looking to repristinate the past (I still watch the original), but the name of Fred Rogers means more to me than catchy jingles and catch phrases.

And speaking of the original, why isn't more publicity given that 300+ eps are available on Amazon? Boy, this could be a good time to invite people to reconnect with the original.

My two kids watch the show.  They like the show.  It's not a bad show, for what it is.  Perhaps it will improve.  I want the show to succeed because I want the FRC to survive.  But I also watch the original with them.  Just bought the 1993 season on Saturday night.  The original had more depth and kids deserve the depth.

My two cents.

Scott

P.S.  Betty:  are other surviving neighbors aware of this message board?  Maybe they would share their thoughts?
 


Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 11, 2012, 09:09:47 AM
dear pastorscott - I certainly have tried to interest fellow neighbors in discovering this forum, so far with no luck.  some call themselves "recovering neighbors". Only half in jest I invented an organization & made myself secretary of it (no stationery yet): The Society of the Very Gifted Babies of the F.C.I. Bathwater.  Some were led to believe that their participation in bringing elements of the Neighborhood into the world was part of the Mission. Hard to change that "disappointment" into "find something good". Some, like Joe Negri, for example, had lent their very identities & gifts to MRN for so long that all they wanted to do was to re-focus their lives on their own projects. (Joe is a wonderful composer - check out his Mass on utube - it's sublime). Some have made their peace with the end of the program, and some are still working on letting go.  As I myself was perhaps too loyal, too deeply invested in the nature and - yes - purity of the program, in intention & execution - I was very touched that people here in the archive had such a profoound appreciation & curiosity about this that & the other thing. I have no real wish to call attention to myself, or make a vendetta against a creeping trend in which the boffo graphics exemplified by the big-bucks Sesame Street (& subsequent "Kid Shows") presentations upped the ante to the point that seeing humans would be"too boring" for a little one. & that child's parents (similarly jaded after years of ad blitzes & tv programming - and that is the word: "programming") - anxious to give & buy them the "latest/greatest". The explanation for the merch is that the new show is so expensive, and PBS in such jeopardy in these hard times (I think I read that Romney has spoken of cutting funds for PBS) - that they HAVE to sell "swag" to make ends meet.  I would have preferred that Chuck & Maggie & Michael Horton & Lenny Meledandri & Francois Clemmons (our best singers) be given a chance to make a record of Fred's songs (& those of us with less superb pipes!) - but as you see, the new DVD's you list, the pop-star-singers one & the recent jazz & jazz/vocal ones are all there is.  Management will tell you, and perhaps it is true, that sales on MRN & other FCI merchandise sells soo pitifully, that they have no interest in such a recording. I have dreamed that we could work with Winton Marcellus, for example, or ask jazz musicians to come & back us while paying their homage to Johnny Costa, whose music is one of the things MOST conspicuous by its absence on DTN. But it takes money and enthusiasm to believe that such a project would have worth for listeners (as well as to those who are the "old soldiers who don't die but just fade away."  Fred himself claimed to suffer through personal appearances, although I have seen him greatly uplifted by them, close-up. And as David Newell has received and himself answered requests for personal appearances, there has never been a focus on performance brought out from the tv into the real real neighborhood concert hall. Not all ideas can be brought to fruition.  Fred had the finances, the connections, the devotion, the vision, the creativity and the discipline to make his dreams a reality. We helped him because we believed in the righteousness of his dream. I'm sure FRC continues to believe as well....perhaps they had no choice but to serve a different master.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Jumpman256 on September 11, 2012, 03:39:33 PM
Quote
Went to Angela's site and saw that she also uses UGGA-MUGGA! the way people use Have a Nice Day!.

Yeah, that might be my fault, I'm afraid. :(  I think Angela put that because when I wrote her my critique of the first episode of DTN (which she actually made into a  post on her blog because I'd been good-naturedly hounding her for a while [http://angelasclues.com/mister-rogers-fan} I told her I LIKED the 'ugga mugga' at the end.  So blame me, bka. Sorry 'bout that.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Paul on September 11, 2012, 05:15:08 PM
if they're using  Fred's name, which they are, then they're  betraying his deeply-held ideas concerning children and feelings.  I'm not looking to repristinate the past (I still watch the original), but the name of Fred Rogers means more to me than catchy jingles and catch phrases...

...It's not a bad show, for what it is.  Perhaps it will improve.  I want the show to succeed because I want the FRC to survive.  But I also watch the original with them.  Just bought the 1993 season on Saturday night.  The original had more depth and kids deserve the depth.

Bingo.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 11, 2012, 07:39:01 PM
dear jumpman, you can hardly blame yourself. It's clear that ugga-mugga was meant to reference MRN, and instead of our subtlety they are hammering it home and over-using it. Also clear that Angela has appropriated it - all on her own. and probably thought she was doing something endearing and upbeat homage-y.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: pastorscott on September 11, 2012, 08:52:59 PM
If any of you have read the DTN Facebook Comments, it looks like many adults are excited about the show.  Some seem to get emotional.  The reason why I think most adults are excited and emotional is because the cosmetics of the program.  I mean, the models, the traffic light, the fish tank, the songs, the trolley, the sneakers/sweater hoodie thing.  I was excited at first because of all these cosmetic items.  It felt good to see them reappear again.  But that's simply nostalgia, which is a way to get the parents to watch the shows.  I'm seeing through the cosmetics to the heart of the issue.

More thoughts about my comment about using Fred's name.  My wife works for the Mayo Clinic. Drs. Charlie and Will--their legacy still lives on in a very deep manner-even though they've been dead since the late 1930s.  If you invoke their name, you better hallow it. Same thing for Walt Disney. He's been dead for nearly 50 years.  After a recent trip to Disney World and a Disney Cruise, Walt Disney could be a live for all I knew.  He's still alive and well.  He's referred to a lot. His name isn't taken in vain.

I feel that Fred is on the same caliber as Disney and the brothers Mayo.  And his name shouldn't be taken in vain as well. I feel that this show unintentionally is doing so by its superficial nature. Fred was more about making creative toys and playing with friends. A lot more. 

The episode I watched today had an extended live action scene that just had music playing in the background.  The topic was friends.  I think Podcast 13's suggestion to have Fred's voice heard over those scenes, talking about whatever the topic is, is an excellent idea. I was pretending that Fred's voice was heard and I think it would work.  If it works for Disney and Mayo, why couldn't direct references to Fred work?  With so many episodes of MRN, I'm sure the powers that be could find a few seconds of an original program that dealt with the topic of the new show.  I think there's merit to that idea, Tim and Guy!

I will say that I pleasantly surprised by X's voice. It sounds the closest to any of the voices of the original.
Scott


Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: bka on September 12, 2012, 07:48:10 AM
yes, the Owl-actor has done his homework.  I think given Fred's trinity: music, child-psychology & faith - made sublime by John Costa's musicianship/arrangements - that the faith part is less implicit in DTN, although the kindliness of the characters & the hard-working attempt to make a really good show are there....there's a lot of food-focus too. lots of "yummy" things (add little ubiquitous upbeat giggle after everything).
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Jumpman256 on September 12, 2012, 11:57:55 AM
Quote
dear jumpman, you can hardly blame yourself. It's clear that ugga-mugga was meant to reference MRN, and instead of our subtlety they are hammering it home and over-using it. Also clear that Angela has appropriated it - all on her own. and probably thought she was doing something endearing and upbeat homage-y.

Well, I appreciate that, bka.  :)

Ya know, I may have a different outlook on this show than some of you--I see it more as a TRIBUTE to Fred's legacy than a continuation.  As you said yourself, bka, the "ugga mugga" seems to be a reference more than anything.  (I'll be fair here, i watched MRN almost every day as a young child--but I only remember, like, one or two episodes with 'ugga mugga' in them, so it's entirely possible (even probable) that I missed the point of the saying, and that it being a reference is insulting to it. I honestly don't know (and don't have the funds right now to buy episodes, so I can't check. ;)]  

I get the distinct impression--from being on her blog a while as I have--that Fred really DID mean something to Angela.  (Of course, it could all be "press emotion," but I detect genuineness. (Especially considering that a Blue's Clues episode about neighborhoods concluded with a small tribute to Fred (it's on Netflix under "Our Neighborhood Festival")  I sense love for Fred all through this show.  Now, is it perfect? No--I agree with some on here about the fact that this show conceds that the NOMB is always real--that should change...though frankly, I have no idea HOW ;) and the fact that, as of yet, bad feelings have just been "swept under the rug" in Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. That's not good either.  But you know what?  I still like the show.  A lot.  I find it a love-fest to the man and his legacy, and I really hope it does well for her. ;)  (Granted, I may be biased, because Blue's Clues is my favorite modern kids show ever, --but I did have geniune concern before I saw the first episode of DTN) ;)

PS: If you want to see another reference -fest tribute episode that Angela dd for one of her OWN shows, pick up "Meet Blue's Baby Brother"--it's one of my favorites. :)

PPS: Uncle X's voice actor is almost spot-on. :)
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: mitsguy2001 on September 14, 2012, 12:03:50 PM
but I only remember, like, one or two episodes with 'ugga mugga' in them, so it's entirely possible (even probable) that I missed the point of the saying, and that it being a reference is insulting to it. I honestly don't know (and don't have the funds right now to buy episodes, so I can't check. ;)]  

That brings up a very good point.  Since MRN has so many episodes, and most of us only saw a small subset of the episodes, there are many things that some of us may think was common that was actually quite rare, and there are many things that some ofus may think was rare that was actually quite common.  It gives each of us a different perspective of the show, since we all saw different episodes.  For example:

1. I once posted that Betty has a beautiful voice, and she disagreed, saying that Chuck, Maggie, and Francois have better voices than them.  But I saw very few episodes with Chuck, Maggie, or Francois.

2. I have no recollection of Purple Panda, even though it seems he was in quite a few episodes.

3. I was surprised to learn that many people didn't realize the house next door to Fred had the Brown's marionette theater and Francois's studio.  I thought that both locations were used a lot during the series.

4. I thought that Northwood was commonly visited.  I didn't realize that it was the last commonly visited of the "woods".

5. I had no recollection of the fact that there were many episodes where the walls were still beige but the closing song was "Good Feeling".

6. I was surprised to learn that the "Weekend Song" was only used in about 15 episodes or so.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: misterrogersismyhero on September 14, 2012, 10:05:45 PM
Speaking as an adult with no children and, therefore, no valid reason to be watching DTN, I have to say that I have watched the episodes and I find the show to be very cute. No, it's not Mister Rogers, but nothing ever could be. I love the references to the original show, the stoplight, the models, the sneakers and hoodie, Mr. McFeeley, and the orginal characters now with children of their own. I'm not sure when King Friday became British, but other than that... I see nothing wrong with teaching children to see the positive in a bad situation. Of course, they are allowed to be sad or angry when the situation warrants, but teaching them to wallow in those feelings and/or to whine about things is not a good idea. Saying, "Yes, I know you feel sad/angry right now, and I understand how you feel. But, instead of staying angry or sad, why don't we try to think of something good about the situation?" Is not the same as saying, "Get over it." Children have to learn to cope with their feelings.
I do wish that more of Mister Roger's original music was used, as his songs seem much more intelligent and meaningful than the current, constantly repeating songs on DTN. I like that Lady Elaine and Miss Elaina use 'toots' and 'boomerang, toomerang' that Hen and Katerina use 'meow meow' and that Daniel and his family use "Ugga Mugga". I don't see the problem that others have with this phrase being used in DTN, and it is always used as an expression of love, just as it always was between Daniel and Lady Aberlin.
I just have one question...Where's Queen Sarah?
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on September 18, 2012, 08:01:53 PM
Where's Queen Sarah?

She showed up on today's episode (Fruit Picking Day)
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: DannyGal on September 19, 2012, 11:24:15 AM
Hi there, long time reader, first time poster!  :)

Misterrogersismyhero, I soo agree with you! Like a lot of you I was skeptical when I first heard about this show, and even more so when seeing the commercials "Doesn't look a think like Daniel...this is gonna suck.." but when I saw the actual show...I was sucked in! I thought it was sooooo cute! I think Little Daniel's voice actor has a lot to do with it. The first time I heard him talk I can't help it, my first reaction was 'AWWWWWWWW!!' Just as adorable as his Daddy was when he was a tiger cub. I wanted to HUUUUUUUUUG him!  ;D

And unlike some people here I love the 'Ugga-Mugga'. Like bka said it's a special act of love ...well, who do you love more than your spouse and child?! To me it's only natural that a made-up special sign of love would be shared by the people you love more than anything! So to me it only made sense that when Big Daniel grew up, fell in love, and got married he would share this special act with his wife and later his child. Whenever Big Daniel does the Ugga-Mugga with Little Daniel, I find it so heartwarming. It's like the father is passing on something special to his child. As Fred always said, "There are many ways to say I love you," and that's a very special way!

The only problems I have with this show is the way they changed some of the characters. Lady Elaine Fairchilde was always one of my favorites. I loved her rebellious attitude, that she was sometimes the only one with guts to stand up to the King, the way she always answered back to the King sometimes during his speeches or her aside comments like "La Dee Da" or "This is gonna go on forever!" But here...they turned her into Miss Frizzle! I mean her voiice is all wrong, she's waaaay too perky and jolly! And she never uses her Boomerang! I mean when her daughter's tube bent, she said she couldn;'t fix it?! Girl you got a magic boomerang...use it!

And speaking of the King, they changed HIM too. I mean instead of the Pimpous, self-rightous, long winding speech giving King..they turned him into Old King Cole! I mean the old King Friday wouldn't even consider dancing out of a room he wouldn;t think it was dignified. Here he's using jazz hands?! Since when?!

But those are minor things, the emphasis is on Little Daniel and his family...and he's soo sweet. He's adorable, and after Big Daniel had grown up basically by himself in a clock it's nice to see that he's ended up with a wife that loves him and a son that adores him! I think it's soo heartwarming.
Title: Re: Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood Critique
Post by: GarryLogan on July 30, 2013, 04:25:31 AM
"There's no "should" or "should not" when it comes to having feelings. They're part of who we are and their origins are beyond our control. When we can believe that, we may find it easier to make constructive choices about what to do with those feelings."
"Confronting our feelings and giving them appropriate expression always takes strength, not weakness... It takes strength to face our sadness and to grieve and let our grief and our anger flow in tears when they need to. It takes strength to talk about our feelings and to reach out for help and comfort when we need led lights (http://www.niceledlights.com)."             --- Fred Rogers

http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/music/songs/truth_will_make_me_free.html (http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/music/songs/truth_will_make_me_free.html)

When Mr. Bulldog tells Josephine to do "five smiles in one standing while looking up into the sky," she doesn't just try it and "ta-da, problem solved!" She does overcome her problem, but its not just "'count to 4" and poof! problem solved...

Etc, etc, etc... Shall I go on?

I guess these are a few examples of why I don't think Fred would have approved of it.


Completely agree with you.. Expressing feeling or emotions in right manner is toughest thing.. If we are able to do that then we will make lots of true friends