The Neighborhood Archive Forum

Mister Rogers' Neighborhood => General Discussion => Topic started by: MrRogers143 on July 13, 2012, 06:39:49 PM

Title: What's the Difference?
Post by: MrRogers143 on July 13, 2012, 06:39:49 PM
Hey, just wonder if there's a difference between the programs from 1968-1976 to 1979-2001?
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on July 13, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
The 1968-1976 programs were somewhat chronological, and not divided into theme weeks.  Friday and Sara met in 1968, got married in 1969, and had Tuesday in 1970.  From 1970 to 1976, Tuesday and Ana aged.  Since the episodes were not divided into theme weeks, sometimes a story would carryover from one week to the next, which sometimes made scheduling reruns complicated.

The 1979-2001 programs were divided into theme weeks, with very little overlap between weeks.  Also, there was no chronology: Tuesday and Ana were about 5 years old in 1979, and remained the same age in 2001.

Another change is that the 1968-1976 programs frequently featured neighborhood locales, such as Betty's Little Theater.  If there was a guest star, Fred would often meet them at Betty's Little Theater, or other locations.  In the 1979-2001 episodes, these locations, although still seen, played a much smaller role.  There were many more scenes that were shot on location, and not at the studio.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: UUrselfRSpecial on July 16, 2012, 12:36:59 AM
The 1968-1976 programs were somewhat chronological, and not divided into theme weeks.  Friday and Sara met in 1968, got married in 1969, and had Tuesday in 1970.  From 1970 to 1976, Tuesday and Ana aged.  Since the episodes were not divided into theme weeks, sometimes a story would carryover from one week to the next, which sometimes made scheduling reruns complicated.

The 1979-2001 programs were divided into theme weeks, with very little overlap between weeks.  Also, there was no chronology:

That's also why a lot of post-75s aired out of order, and when post-75 runs did air in order, there were a lot of interruptions for annual occasion weeks (such as Superheroes for Halloween) and other out of order weeks, which there weren't for pre-79s, except for when they had to interrupt for Starting School and post-75 runs at the appropriate time. However, before 1992, except for July 29 - September 20, 1985 and April 21 - May 2, 1986, there were never out of order pre-79s, just a few switched weeks to avoid broken carryovers. In 1992 - 1995, there were a lot of out of skipped weeks and even some broken carryovers.

Tuesday and Ana were about 5 years old in 1979, and remained the same age in 2001.

Although there were some alterations to the Tuesday and Ana puppets, and Tuesday even had different people voicing him.

Another change is that the 1968-1976 programs frequently featured neighborhood locales, such as Betty's Little Theater.  If there was a guest star, Fred would often meet them at Betty's Little Theater, or other locations.  In the 1979-2001 episodes, these locations, although still seen, played a much smaller role.  There were many more scenes that were shot on location, and not at the studio.

Even though Betty's Little Theatre was seen only once post-75 (1509, Thursday of Friends, my absolute favorite post-75 episode), others that were regular pre-79 locales were seen quite a bit in the post-75s. Brockett's Bakery was seen regularly until 1650, which debuted February 28, 1992 (However, though Brockett died on May 2, 1995, and his last episode I believe was 1690, which debuted September 1, 1995). As for Trow's workshop, I don't remember just when it was last seen (I'm guessing maybe 1528, Wednesday of Work which debuted April 4, 1984), however, if not then, around then, even though Trow didn't die until November 2, 1998, and his dedication episode and last appearance was 1740, which debuted February 19, 1999. And amazingly, the McFeely house wasn't seen so much in the early post-75s, but then was again but not until 1996! But the exterior only, and only in four episodes, all of which debuted in 1996 (1696, 1701, 1706, and 1708). And Negri's music shop was the one that lasted, having been seen regularly until 2001. Interestingly enough, there are two instances of people/locales that are never seen in the post-75s but mentioned as if they are still around. Elsie Neal is mentioned in 1464 (though that is from the first post-75 week), and Audrey Cleans Everything, which was really seen only in a few 1975 episodes, is mentioned in 1506.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: sriv94 on August 01, 2012, 10:01:16 AM
and Audrey Cleans Everything, which was really seen only in a few 1975 episodes, is mentioned in 1506.

It's sort of mentioned in 1600 as well.  As the slide viewer shows Audrey, Fred says "Audrey Cleans Everything."
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: Lady_Elaine on August 31, 2012, 04:30:17 PM
I grew up watching the original pre-79 shows, and I much prefer those to the more modern series. They seemed more spontaneous and dynamic to me. Like other people mentioned, the major difference in the two series was that in the original 1968-75 series, it was more chronological and sequential, and the 1979-2001 shows had theme weeks which basically were stand-alone each week. Also, a major difference was that in the pre-79 shows, Fred visited many of his neighbors in their "homes" or "businesses". For example, he would often go to the McFeelys' house before 1979, or Bob Trow's shop, or the Brown Marionette Theater, or Francois Clemmon's studio. In the post-79 shows, Fred took many real fieldtrips, to factories, or zoos, but rarely visited the members of the neighborhood in their own settings. Basically after 1979 the only studio sets Fred frequently visited were Brockett's Bakery, the Music Shop, or sometimes Bob Trow's. We never saw the Brown's Marionette Theater or Mr. Clemmons' Studio or inside the McFeely's house after 1979 to my knowledge.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on May 03, 2013, 07:03:41 PM
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post, but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on May 03, 2013, 07:24:25 PM
And in addition, the pre-79 series rarely had serious weeks, they were mostly just all fun & games here and there.

1101-1105 (obviously), 1416-1420 (the NOM being plunged into darkness due to an energy blow-out) and 1431-1435 (talks about moving) (and if it counts even though it's not so much an episode as much as a special, the RFK assasination special from 1968) are the only instances in the pre-79 era i can think of that dealt with serious situations and/or important life experiences.

But most of the modern era prominently had discussions and/or counseling on serious topics. I can't explain them all, but to name several:

School is about starting school for the first time
Discipline dealt with punishments, getting spanked and keeping promises and oaths
Make-Believe's Tuesday episode dealt with going to the hospital
Food dealt with hunger and suffering from a famine (and interestingly, that week's also infamous for what TVTropes would call it's "radar" moment in 1536 with mothers nursing their babies, complete with 3 human mothers who were seen breastfeeding)
Families had adoption
Kindness & Unkindness was about being respectful and kind to others and how people's feelings are often hurt when somebody's unkind to them
Fathers & Music's Wedsnday episode had a brief discussion on the dangers of keeping wolves for pets the tragedy of letitng them die in captivity
and Then & Now's Thursday episode dealt with death.

And of course, we all know Divorce and Conflict were VERY important weeks in that regard. Strangely, i've not found any episodes that dealt with burglary, teenage runaways nor parental abandonment, so maybe there's some pre-79 week that may deal w/ any of those topics.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: setlori on May 03, 2013, 10:42:10 PM
I was born in 1979 and don't think I watched Mr. Rogers past, say, 1986 or so (well, until I had own my kids and made an investment in Amazon Video on Demand.) So it turns out most of the episodes I remember from my childhood were actually from the pre-79 era. I never realized as a kid just how old most of the episodes were that I was watching. One of the episodes I remember so well was the one where Mr. Rogers messes up icing the cupcake. I had been trying to find that episode for the longest time. I was shocked to recently learn it was from 1969!

I don't know if other kids felt this way, but I always got excited when the series would start over every year. It gave much the same feeling as watching old home movies or flipping through a photo album. I enjoyed watching the courtship and marriage of the King and Queen, the birth of Prince Tuesday, when the "Z" on X's door got turned into an "X" and all the other neighborhood milestones. When he painted the house blue felt like a major transition. I always looked forward to that. I did hate that time in the NOMB just sort of stopped in the later era (unless you were human, of course.) I can appreciate now that it wasn't practical to age puppets, but as a kid I really enjoyed seeing the natural transition of things and people. All of this just reminds me how much I wish I could see those old episodes again!
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2013, 02:10:49 PM
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post, but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?

Tim: When watching the 1969 episodes, have you noticed which weeks carry over to other weeks?  That would definitely help shed some light on the possible schedules during the early 80s and when the "banned" weeks last aired.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2013, 02:14:03 PM
I was born in 1979 and don't think I watched Mr. Rogers past, say, 1986 or so (well, until I had own my kids and made an investment in Amazon Video on Demand.) So it turns out most of the episodes I remember from my childhood were actually from the pre-79 era. I never realized as a kid just how old most of the episodes were that I was watching. One of the episodes I remember so well was the one where Mr. Rogers messes up icing the cupcake. I had been trying to find that episode for the longest time. I was shocked to recently learn it was from 1969!

I don't know if other kids felt this way, but I always got excited when the series would start over every year. It gave much the same feeling as watching old home movies or flipping through a photo album. I enjoyed watching the courtship and marriage of the King and Queen, the birth of Prince Tuesday, when the "Z" on X's door got turned into an "X" and all the other neighborhood milestones. When he painted the house blue felt like a major transition. I always looked forward to that. I did hate that time in the NOMB just sort of stopped in the later era (unless you were human, of course.) I can appreciate now that it wasn't practical to age puppets, but as a kid I really enjoyed seeing the natural transition of things and people. All of this just reminds me how much I wish I could see those old episodes again!

Strangely, I was also born in 1979, and I know for sure that I never saw any of the 1969 episodes (the 1970 season is the earliest I ever saw).  Strangely, I do remember when Conflict first aired in November 1983, even though that's around the same time that the 1969 episodes allegedly last aired.

Setlori: since you remember the 1969 season so well, when do you remember seeing it?  Is it only 1001-1030 that you remember?  Did you ever see 1036-1040, 1051-1060 (including the opera in 1055), and 1071-1075?  What about 1031-1035, 1041-1050, and 1061-1065?
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: itsyouilike on May 04, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
Gotta say I prefer the pre-79 episodes for the most part. If only more were available on amazon.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: setlori on May 04, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
mitsguy2001, I don't feel like I remember it so well. I remember watching the major episodes, but any details of those episodes are lost on me. Well, there was the cupcake thing. Mr. Rogers is carefully icing the cupcakes in his calm, Mr. Rogers way, and right when he gets to the end of the three, there's an icing blowout, complete with sound. In response, Mr. Rogers just calmly turns to Chef Brockett and says, "I think I'm going to need another one." As a kid, I found that so hilarious! That's probably a clue as to how young I was when I watched it.

I don't have any recollection of those other episodes, so I can only assume I didn't watch them. My best guess as to when I would have seen the 1969 episodes I did see would have been in the 1983-1985 range. I'm sorry I can't be of more help than that. I'm going to guess it was closer to the 1983 end since I have such vague memories of those episodes, and if I'd been older I think I'd remember them better. Any earlier than 1983 and I would have been too young to remember anything I think.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2013, 10:05:44 PM
It seems the cupcake episode you are talking about is 1026.  According to our schedules, that episode last aired on Monday, Jan. 9, 1984.  Does that sound correct to you?  According to our schedules, the following week, they jumped ahead to 1066 (the 1970 season premiere).  I'm guessing that you remember 1001-1030, but you probably either never saw (or don't remember) any of 1031-1065, none of which (we think) aired in 1983-84.  Do you remembera ny of 1031-1065?

What I still don't understand is, if 1001-1030 aired in December 1983 - January 1984, then why did I never see them, despite having vivid memories of seeing Conflict when it first aired in November 1983.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: UUrselfRSpecial on May 05, 2013, 10:55:12 AM
Sorry, i know this is an outdated post

No I definitely don't look at this post as outdated. Though I haven't posted on this board in a long time, I still am subscribed to this, and I'm glad that even after a long time of not looking at this post, I'm still subscribed. And I do have things to say about it:



but i was thinking of two other interesting differences between the two eras.

One is that, although it's been said numerous times that there were several pre-79 weeks that carried over to the next, there were many weeks from that same era that WEREN'T neat story-arcs. There were several instances where in a pre-79 week they throw in a random, unrelated NOM story just for fun and sometimes that's what caused a long story arc.

I do know that.

One ultimate example is 1326-1330. 1326 & 1327 are about a Neighborhood Sweethearts concert at the Museum-Go-Round, 1328 is about Miss Paulifacate, Bob Dog and X discovering a pizza that fell from the sky, 1329 is about Lady Aberlin and Miss Cow helping X with his OCS course on Stop & Go and 1330 is the story that lead to the "Circus In Make-Believe" story arc. Also, many episodes from 1968-1971 seasons were also constant victims of this.

Even though ironically in that era, the 1969 and 1970 seasons have the longest story arcs of all, the former lasting 6 weeks (1001 - 1030) and the latter, 10! (1076 - 1125, or maybe 1077 - 1124, since I've seen 1076 and 1125 in recent years, and the latter of course is the opera. And in there I know 1101 is self contained)

Incidentally, Joe (mitsguy2001) did this for me  years ago, but I no longer have that e-mail -- without revealing any plot info (I'm hoping all episodes will be available some day, and they're all viewable in the Elizabeth Nesbitt Room in Pittsburgh, where I do plan to go at least a few times to see some of them, so they'd be spoilers), could you list all episodes that are self contained (not counting operas), and all story arcs that aren't exactly 5 episodes? In fact, how about list all story arcs, whether they're 1 or 50 episodes or any in between other than 5 on a Monday - Friday. Here are carryovers I do know of, besides the ones I listed:

1101, as I said, self contained
1141 - 1165 (all deal with the Platypuses' Australia trip, although there are some that don't deal with the trip in there)
1226 - 1240, all the Lady Elaine/Planet Purple story
1251 - 1260, Lady Elaine painting the NOMB purple
I believe I remember hearing that in 1270, Bob Trow mentions something about a telephone "next week," and I never heard of any 1270/1271 interruptions so that could be true.
1274 - 1276, Harriett Cow introduced, Nobody Can Take Your Place. I could be wrong but I think the story starts in 1273 even though she's not introduced until 1274.
I thought I remembered hearing about a 1280/1281 carryover, but I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of a 1280/1281 interruption
1301 - 1315 (but the mystery here is when there would be a 1310/1311 interruption for the 1987 - 88 post-75 run if no week was moved, why 1291 - 1295 was moved to start 1988 and not 1296 - 1300. Maybe that could be because in 1301 - 1305, the opera is mentioned as happening "last week." Amazingly, this means that one more opera would air while Reardon was still alive, while if the opera week had been moved, it would have been the first week to air after his death!!!! But of course that wasn't known at the time that it was scheduled. Another theory could be that they could have thought that since the opera is fall themed, and Daniel's birthday is in April (or rather that's when Daniel made his debut on The Children's Corner on April 5, 1954, and his birthday episode did debut the day after his "19th" birthday and aired on his "31st"), they thought it might make more sense to air the opera in the fall and Daniel's birthday in April. Although amazingly, as for that particular opera, it has only has three other confirmed airings (and one unconfirmed but most likely during the bulk), all of which are in the spring!
1330 - 1335, as you mentioned
1351 - 1360 (or really 1355 - 1360), the Purple Panda story
1376 - 1390, even though though 1386 - 1390 aired three times without 1376 - 1385 in 1993 - 1995. Athough that really is two story arcs, while one makes sense to follow another. 1376 (or maybe 1377) - 1382 (or 1383) is Lady Elaine thinking she's engaged to Corny, while I believe that in 1382, 1383, or 1384, when she realizes the truth about Corny, in 1383 (or 1384) - 1390, she gets over it by starting MGR-TV
1401 - 1410 (or I believe just 1403 - 1407), the trip to Westwood
1411 - 1420 (the energy crisis, but 1416 is the Dentist & Tooth Fairy, self contained and goes to video, and of course doesn't deal with the crisis)
1421 - 1435 (after the opera in 1425, Reardon can't leave the NOMB, and then all of 1426 - 1430 is about travel. Then maybe 1431 - 1435 after that is similar to the 1376 - 1390 situation in that it has to do with moving, and indeed 1430/1431 was avoided for the 1988 - 89 post-75 run. And the reason why I'm sure it's like that situation is that in 1994, they aired 1431 - 1435 before 1421 - 1425 and skipped 1426 - 1430. For whatever reason they felt that latter week wasn't as important as the other two when they were phasing out pre-79s.
1450/1451 could be maybe considered a carryover, since I believe in 1451 they discuss the events in 1456 - 1460.
1453 - 1460, all dealing with Margaret Hamilton and remembering the past to prepare kids for pre-79s resuming with 1001 (and 1066 in 1986 and 1989), so it's really 1453 - 1030. And as for 1450/1451, is that, amazingly, except for during the bulk in 1977, and even in the unconfirmed pre-9/3/84 airings, there was some post-75 interruption shortly before 1456 - 1460, and as for the known (or projected based on what's most likely, such as 1983), all except the end of the bulk in 1979 are 1445/1446 while in 1979, it's the broken carryover of 1455/1456, so none are in between 1450/1451.
So could you please just list all other story arcs (and again not plots), whether 1 or 50 episodes or in between, not listed above for pre-79s, and correct all mistakes I may have with these pre-79s.

As a matter of fact, having a randomly-thrown-in NOM story once caused a continuity error. In 79-89, King Friday has left town to visit with his then-girlfriend Sarah, the neighbors have an opera and Lady Elaine refuses to get rid of the Campsite opera tents quite to everyone's annoyance. But in 85, he mysteriously returned from his vacation to see Vija Vetra at the castle and by the next week, he's still on vacation! Tim even made a note about this in 86.

That's crazy! Maybe though it's logical that he could come back for an emergency, then goes back. It's like a business emergency during a vacation.

Meanwhile in the modern era, Friends and You & I Together were the only weeks that had this problem. 1510 has nothing to do with the friends picnic and 1726 has nothing to do with the gorilla visit. So long story arcs in the pre-79 era weren't as heavily common back then as most people think. And after all, it's a little kids show, whatdya expect?
[/quote]

I'm going to make some corrections here and add some others I can think of:
That is true about 1726 vs. 1727 - 1730. But that's not exactly the case with 1506 - 1509 vs. 1510. I know that week very, very well. In 1509, the place that Lady Aberlin and Daniel go to in the rain is the place where they had the picnic, and that's stated. And it's definitely intentional as a followup to 1509, since Lady Aberlin and Daniel's friendship is tested when, having to "come to the castle in two" for the picnic, she forgets him, and in 1510, I'm sure the reason why they show them together as friends is to show that he's forgiven her for what she forgot to do. Also btw, here's a theory as to why the picnic was Thursday and not Friday -- even though it ended up debuting the week before in 1982, it's very possible that when the week was shot, they thought it would debut on Thanksgiving week, and what better way to commemorate Thanksgiving than a picnic of close friends, as it could be like a family Thanksgiving dinner.
Although as for another examples:
1581 - 1585 (Alike & Different): 1585 has nothing to do with Queen Sara and Mayor Maggie switching places for a day, as that story wraps up in 1584. However, Nancy Catterpillar and Darryl Butterfly are seen in 1585, as they are throughout the rest of the week, and the clowns that are in both the circus and the NOMB in 1585 are also seen in both Brockett's and the NOMB in 1584.
The following week, 1586 - 1590 (Nighttime): 1586, 1587, and 1588 are all self contained in the NOMB, and the only thing that makes those episodes a story arc is that they all take place at night, and only 1589 - 1590 make up a story arc. The only thing that really lasts a full week is in the Real Neighborhood, the visit from the people from the Russian TV show. However, even there, it's not the full week, because though the visit is in 1589 and first brought up at the end of 1586, it's not mentioned once in 1588, while ironically, it is mentioned in 1590 has having been in the previous episode!
Though I can think of no other self contained post-75s, there's also a very major flaw in the next-to-last week, Ready to Read (1756 - 1760). There seems to be a whole episode of plot missing between 1757 and 1758. Remember in that week, Friday is curious about the inside of things. He gets a magnifying glass (I think; I haven't seen this week in a long time) and he mentions that he's going to see if the magnifying glass would work), but we never see him try it, or do we ever hear him hear what happened after his trying it. And also, we see Lady Elaine get a mysterious package in 1757, and Fred says that in the next time, we're going to find out what it is. But at the start of the NOMB in 1758, we hear Fred talk about her reading game as if we knew what it was going to be! I do wonder if there was a sixth episode between 1757 and 1758 that was shot by accident.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: sriv94 on May 06, 2013, 10:08:04 AM
I thought I remembered hearing about a 1280/1281 carryover, but I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of a 1280/1281 interruption

1281 was the variety show, and 1280 (and the few episodes before it) built up to it (we see Mr. McFeely practicing his tap-dance at Negri's Music Shop, Fred getting the accordion and at the very end, Fred playing it a little to help Mrs. McFeely get the tune for the tap routine).  And 1281 of course had no NOMB segment (I don't remember whether there was a storyline in 1280 that continued into 1282).
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 06, 2013, 11:29:40 AM
I think there are some carryovers between weeks that are not obvious from the files, which is why I was hoping to see if Tim would have an answer.  Although not mentioned in the files, it seems that 1031-1035 mentions a character who was seen only in 1036-1040, which could explain why 1031-1035 didn't air in 1983-84.  I wonder if maybe, although 1031-1035 was in the Plan and Play Book, maybe it also stopped airing when 1036-1040 was banned, or maybe they wanted to eliminate all references to that character (and didn't realize at the time he was mentioned in 1031-1035), or maybe they realized it confused kids to hear him mentioned in 1031-1035 but then not seen the following week.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 06, 2013, 11:35:14 AM
Another seemingly continuity error was in the first week of the series.  In Episode 2, when Lady Aberlin was knocking on the door, Fred said (to the kids watching the show) "Guess who that is".  But since Lady Aberlin had not yet been seen or mentioned, there is no way that kids could have possibly known it was her the first time that episode aired.  Although, maybe she was mentioned in promotional material for the show that mentioned her, that Fred expected kids would be familiar with?  Also, in Episode 5, Fred said that from now on, Betty will be known as Lady Aberlin.  But the name Lady Aberlin was used in earlier episodes, including Episode 2.  I'm thinking maybe Episode 2 was re-shot sometime after its first airing.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: setlori on May 06, 2013, 01:06:11 PM
It seems the cupcake episode you are talking about is 1026.  According to our schedules, that episode last aired on Monday, Jan. 9, 1984.  Does that sound correct to you?  According to our schedules, the following week, they jumped ahead to 1066 (the 1970 season premiere).  I'm guessing that you remember 1001-1030, but you probably either never saw (or don't remember) any of 1031-1065, none of which (we think) aired in 1983-84.  Do you remembera ny of 1031-1065?

Yeah, that timeframe is probably right. I had probably watched them in previous years as well, which would be why I remember the feeling of having watched them multiple times, though I don't actually remember those viewings specifically because I would have been 2-3. As you suggested, I have no memory of 1031-1065.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 07, 2013, 11:27:07 AM
It seems the cupcake episode you are talking about is 1026.  According to our schedules, that episode last aired on Monday, Jan. 9, 1984.  Does that sound correct to you?  According to our schedules, the following week, they jumped ahead to 1066 (the 1970 season premiere).  I'm guessing that you remember 1001-1030, but you probably either never saw (or don't remember) any of 1031-1065, none of which (we think) aired in 1983-84.  Do you remembera ny of 1031-1065?

Yeah, that timeframe is probably right. I had probably watched them in previous years as well, which would be why I remember the feeling of having watched them multiple times, though I don't actually remember those viewings specifically because I would have been 2-3. As you suggested, I have no memory of 1031-1065.

So are you thinking that 1031-1065 didn't air even in 1981?
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on May 07, 2013, 04:37:14 PM
nor parental abandonment

OK, maybe Divorce sorta tackled the issue of parental abandonment, especially since that's how many parental abandonments start, but there are other ways that parents abandon their children when they're very young besides divorce.

And actually, i stand corrected on another detail, i think PA was part of the plot to the A Granddad For Daniel opera (Mr. Mefford's dad having abandoned him when he was a kid), so it was at least played for drama in one post-75 episode. But still, it'd be interesting if there was a pre-79 episode or special that dealt with that topic.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: setlori on May 07, 2013, 09:39:58 PM

So are you thinking that 1031-1065 didn't air even in 1981?

Oh gosh, I can't say that. I don't remember anything I watched in 1981.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 07, 2013, 10:49:20 PM

So are you thinking that 1031-1065 didn't air even in 1981?

Oh gosh, I can't say that. I don't remember anything I watched in 1981.

But you said that you remember seeing 1001-1030 more than once.  If you saw it in 1983-84, and you saw it more than once, the previous time had to have been in 1981.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: setlori on May 08, 2013, 04:50:35 PM

But you said that you remember seeing 1001-1030 more than once.  If you saw it in 1983-84, and you saw it more than once, the previous time had to have been in 1981.

Yes, that's true. A couple posts back I said that I probably had the memory of watching it more than once, but I don't specifically remember those first viewings because it would have been too early in my life. So, when I watched the last time, I remember knowing I had seen them before, but at this point in my life I can't actually remember those previous viewings. I hope I'm making sense.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on June 29, 2013, 08:13:56 PM
Nicky:

I'm not very good at quoting on this board and i've been cutting down on it lately, but i read your reply and i was thinking:

I can't quite think of anymore pre-79 carryovers than what you mentioned. The only other ones i can think of is 1341-1348, 1421-1440 and a few 1968 ones (1-8, 16-25, 31-36, 57-67 and 69-89).
But it's pretty hard not to reveal any plot info because you can read about some of these episodes on the Archive as Tim has access to them and has revealed quite alot of interesting details about them. You mean you don't want to know anything specific like the quotes or an episode's version of John Costa's outro music, ect.? I understand that. Having an obsession w/ the show's closing credits, i too would love to be surprised at what variation of the outro music John played at the end. Not sure about the others, though.

Also, correction on 1453-1460; it's actually 1446-1460, but again, i guess i can't explain why.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on July 20, 2013, 09:28:27 PM
Nicky:

I'm not very good at quoting on this board and i've been cutting down on it lately, but i read your reply and i was thinking:

I can't quite think of anymore pre-79 carryovers than what you mentioned. The only other ones i can think of is 1341-1348, 1421-1440 and a few 1968 ones (1-8, 16-25, 31-36, 57-67 and 69-89).
But it's pretty hard not to reveal any plot info because you can read about some of these episodes on the Archive as Tim has access to them and has revealed quite alot of interesting details about them. You mean you don't want to know anything specific like the quotes or an episode's version of John Costa's outro music, ect.? I understand that. Having an obsession w/ the show's closing credits, i too would love to be surprised at what variation of the outro music John played at the end. Not sure about the others, though.

Also, correction on 1453-1460; it's actually 1446-1460, but again, i guess i can't explain why.

JCostaThePro:

I don't think it's right that you can't post about these carryover weeks just because Nicky doesn't want any info revealed.  As far as I know, Nicky is not a moderator of this board, and does not have any special privileges.  Can you please post everything you know, and maybe include a spoiler alert so that Nicky doesn't read it if he doesn't want to see it?  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on July 20, 2013, 10:43:14 PM
JCostaThePro:

I don't think it's right that you can't post about these carryover weeks just because Nicky doesn't want any info revealed.  As far as I know, Nicky is not a moderator of this board, and does not have any special privileges.  Can you please post everything you know, and maybe include a spoiler alert so that Nicky doesn't read it if he doesn't want to see it?  Thanks.

Yes i can. I'll just simply post the basic storylines, no spoilers. Let's see:

1-8 (the near-war and peace party in Make-Believe)
16-25 (Donkey Hodie's debut)
31-36 (the red monster story)
57-67 (Joey Hollingsworth's return to the neighborhood, the water flowing and fire at the factory story)
69-89 (Donkey Hodie being lonely and the King's long vacation to visit Sarah; however, 85 seemed to be shot at another time and had a completely unrelated NOM story, causing a break in the story arc)
1341-1348 (the King Monday IX statue making and getting broken story)
1421-1440 (1432, 1434 and 1438 are all about new neighbor Natalie Baker moving in)
1446-1460 (1446 and 1447 are about Tony Bennett's visit to the Museum Go-Round).
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on July 21, 2013, 04:16:34 PM
JCostaThePro:

I don't think it's right that you can't post about these carryover weeks just because Nicky doesn't want any info revealed.  As far as I know, Nicky is not a moderator of this board, and does not have any special privileges.  Can you please post everything you know, and maybe include a spoiler alert so that Nicky doesn't read it if he doesn't want to see it?  Thanks.

Yes i can. I'll just simply post the basic storylines, no spoilers. Let's see:

1-8 (the near-war and peace party in Make-Believe)
16-25 (Donkey Hodie's debut)
31-36 (the red monster story)
57-67 (Joey Hollingsworth's return to the neighborhood, the water flowing and fire at the factory story)
69-89 (Donkey Hodie being lonely and the King's long vacation to visit Sarah; however, 85 seemed to be shot at another time and had a completely unrelated NOM story, causing a break in the story arc)
1341-1348 (the King Monday IX statue making and getting broken story)
1421-1440 (1432, 1434 and 1438 are all about new neighbor Natalie Baker moving in)
1446-1460 (1446 and 1447 are about Tony Bennett's visit to the Museum Go-Round).

Interestingly, they didn't seem to take these carryovers into account when scheduling reruns.  Some but not all of the carryover black and white weeks aired during the summer of 1970.  And, 1436-1440 aired in the fall of 1988 but 1421-1435 was moved to the spring of 1989.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: bjdwsm on August 12, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
Does anyone spot any noticeable changes to the look of the show between production runs?  From what I've seen, there were a few changes to the model neighborhood that seemed to coincide with the changes in directors (more in 1968-1976), and I think there were differences in how the camera shot the model.

I'm curious whether there's much difference between the 1969 run and the 1970 run in terms of its look, or were they virtually identical similar.  I'm also wondering about any noticable differences between the 1974-76 Bill Moates season, the 1979-81 Hugh Martin seasons, and the 1982-87 Paul Lally seasons.

Has anyone tracked when Picture Picture stopped displaying the greetings? ("Hello"/"Hi")
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: ASchuelke on August 14, 2013, 07:23:39 PM
One main difference in the 1979-1981 era is the opening shot of Fred walking up to the house.
Another difference that came along in 1982 is the HO scale trolley on the model neighborhood.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: ASchuelke on August 14, 2013, 07:24:34 PM
One other thing, I believe starting in 1988 we see a new font for the credits.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on August 15, 2013, 04:27:50 AM
One other thing, I believe starting in 1988 we see a new font for the credits.

Also, starting with (i think) the Secrets week 1596-1600, the episode numbers are seen at the end of each episode as well as the beginning.

A few other notable differences throughout the neighborhood: in earlier post-75 episodes and several later pre-79s, the camera could zoom down towards the street right near the block of the bakery, music shop and theater (which is why on a lot of episodes, if you look at the screenshots, the camera often parked near the top of the tall red apartment building instead of just near it). The addition of the HO scale trolley sorta prevented this in later episodes. Also, in earlier episodes, the farm was near to the other side of the street and during the outro you could occasionally see cows and/or horses in the gate.

Also, another obvious difference in the pre-79s was Rogers wearing more sweaters than he owned later on. Strangely however, in many of the oldest episodes that aired, the sweater trdition was not yet common. He would sometimes wear a sweater only once or twice a week. Among the rarely-seen sweaters he wore were a weird-looking Vandyke brown/banana yellow one (in 1022) and a midnight blue zipper one with bisque trim (1085).

Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on August 21, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.

Actually, I have been told that 1066-1070 has the NET building (and traffic light) from the 1969 season.  It was changed in either 1071 or 1076; I know 1076 has the new ones.  I tried asking Tim if 1071-1075 has the new traffic light (and the new NET building) but he didn't seem interested in answering.  Tim: if you are reading this, can you please let us know if the new NET buiding debuted in 1071 or 1076?  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on August 24, 2013, 09:44:09 AM
Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.

Actually, I have been told that 1066-1070 has the NET building (and traffic light) from the 1969 season.  It was changed in either 1071 or 1076; I know 1076 has the new ones.  I tried asking Tim if 1071-1075 has the new traffic light (and the new NET building) but he didn't seem interested in answering.  Tim: if you are reading this, can you please let us know if the new NET buiding debuted in 1071 or 1076?  Thanks.


The new NET building seems to appear in 1066, the end of 1068 and 1069 and 1071, but the old one does appear on 1067, the beginning of 1068 and 1069, 1072, 1074 and 1075.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on August 24, 2013, 12:20:59 PM
Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.

Actually, I have been told that 1066-1070 has the NET building (and traffic light) from the 1969 season.  It was changed in either 1071 or 1076; I know 1076 has the new ones.  I tried asking Tim if 1071-1075 has the new traffic light (and the new NET building) but he didn't seem interested in answering.  Tim: if you are reading this, can you please let us know if the new NET buiding debuted in 1071 or 1076?  Thanks.


The new NET building seems to appear in 1066, the end of 1068 and 1069 and 1071, but the old one does appear on 1067, the beginning of 1068 and 1069, 1072, 1074 and 1075.

Then there is no correlation between the NET building and the traffic light, since I know for sure that 1066 has the old traffic light.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: RogersFan82 on August 27, 2013, 08:54:16 AM
Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.

Actually, I have been told that 1066-1070 has the NET building (and traffic light) from the 1969 season.  It was changed in either 1071 or 1076; I know 1076 has the new ones.  I tried asking Tim if 1071-1075 has the new traffic light (and the new NET building) but he didn't seem interested in answering.  Tim: if you are reading this, can you please let us know if the new NET buiding debuted in 1071 or 1076?  Thanks.


The new NET building seems to appear in 1066, the end of 1068 and 1069 and 1071, but the old one does appear on 1067, the beginning of 1068 and 1069, 1072, 1074 and 1075.

Then there is no correlation between the NET building and the traffic light, since I know for sure that 1066 has the old traffic light.


I think the inconsistency here is just a matter of them using previously shot video for the intro and/or credits on those specific episodes.  Actually, if I remember correctly from 1066, most of the credits have the 1969 models and literally as the shot is panning to the NET building, there is a quick cut to a shot of the building from how it appeared after that week.  You almost see both versions of the building for a brief second.  The major difference I've always noticed between the 1969 and 1970 models is that the 1969 ones had gray looking hills in the background and the 1970 models had more greenery all over including trees/bushes where the hills were before.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on August 27, 2013, 11:09:37 AM
Also, in regards to differences between the 1969 and 1970 episodes: if you look carefully at the screenshots, the NET building looks a little different. I'm not sure if it's just the camera angle/lighting or not, but the whole building looks somewhat taller and skinnier, the roof looks paler and the "N" looks more maroon-ish.

Actually, I have been told that 1066-1070 has the NET building (and traffic light) from the 1969 season.  It was changed in either 1071 or 1076; I know 1076 has the new ones.  I tried asking Tim if 1071-1075 has the new traffic light (and the new NET building) but he didn't seem interested in answering.  Tim: if you are reading this, can you please let us know if the new NET buiding debuted in 1071 or 1076?  Thanks.


The new NET building seems to appear in 1066, the end of 1068 and 1069 and 1071, but the old one does appear on 1067, the beginning of 1068 and 1069, 1072, 1074 and 1075.

Then there is no correlation between the NET building and the traffic light, since I know for sure that 1066 has the old traffic light.


I think the inconsistency here is just a matter of them using previously shot video for the intro and/or credits on those specific episodes.  Actually, if I remember correctly from 1066, most of the credits have the 1969 models and literally as the shot is panning to the NET building, there is a quick cut to a shot of the building from how it appeared after that week.  You almost see both versions of the building for a brief second.  The major difference I've always noticed between the 1969 and 1970 models is that the 1969 ones had gray looking hills in the background and the 1970 models had more greenery all over including trees/bushes where the hills were before.

Interesting.  That makes me think that the opening and closing credits were re-shot, maybe to add or delete certain credits, or maybe in 1976 when the trolley closing was added.

Does all of 1066-1070 have the old traffic light?  I know for sure 1066 has it, but I'm not sure about after that.  Also, (probably only Tim can answer this): what version of the traffic light does 1071-1075 have?  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: JCostaThePro on August 27, 2013, 11:43:23 AM
I'm not sure about all this, but i don't think Tim wants us making so many quotes.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on August 27, 2013, 12:21:24 PM
Quotes are fine. They just clutter things up a bit. I'll try and answer the questions about the traffic light as soon as I get a chance.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on August 29, 2013, 09:25:36 PM
Here are screenshots of the traffic light from 1071-1075

(http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/blog/images/1071lt.jpg)

(http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/blog/images/1072lt.jpg)

(http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/blog/images/1073lt.jpg)

(http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/blog/images/1074lt.jpg)

(http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/blog/images/1075lt.jpg)
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: mitsguy2001 on August 31, 2013, 01:24:42 PM
Thanks for posting those.  I can't really tell whether those are the old or new traffic lights, since the angle doesn't really show the depth of the visors.

Maybe to make it easier to compare, can you post a picture of the traffic light from an episode that we know has the "old" traffic light (1066-1070, or anything from the 1969 season) and a picture from an episode that we know has the "new" traffic light (1076 or later).  Or, can you direct me to a picture of the traffic light that is already posted from an "old" and "new" episode?  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's the Difference?
Post by: early_morning on May 21, 2016, 03:20:53 PM
In Post 79 each week has topic that Fred would stick to throughout that week, in pre 79 some weeks have topic for example episodes 1-5 is change, but episodes 6-15 don't have topics then in episodes 16-20 the topic is welcoming Donkey Hoodie.

In post 79 all the shows end with "It's such a good feeling" and "The Weekend Song", 50% of the shows in pre 79 end with "Tomorrow"

In Post 79 rarely used characters one of those rarely used ones was Grandpere.

A lot of pre 79 songs weren't used that often like "A lonely kind of thing" and "When a baby comes" it surprised me that he would sing "I think I'm going to like today" after all those years though.