The Neighborhood Archive Forum

Mister Rogers' Neighborhood => Episodes => Topic started by: mitsguy2001 on April 29, 2012, 09:21:10 PM

Title: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 29, 2012, 09:21:10 PM
I have read that Episode 1696 (Monday episode of Transformations) was edited, to remove a scene with a laser pointer.  Were there any other episodes during the series that were edited?

One possibility (and I never saw this episode, so I don't know) is 1336.  The files I've seen for that episode list the Tomorrow song.  On another board, at least one person (who seemed reliable) remembered seeing that episode, and said that it had the Tomorrow song, even though it hadn't been used in 2 years.  But another person said that the files were wrong, and that it definitely had Good Feeling at the end.  Could that episode, for whatever reason, maybe had the Tomorrow song, and later had it edited to use Good Feeling?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: earnhardtfan4life on April 30, 2012, 09:58:21 AM
The nighttime episodes later on were dubbed Russia instead of Soviet Union.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mjb1124 on April 30, 2012, 10:32:19 AM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)

As for 1336, I doubt the ending was edited.   Most likely, either the older episode guides and/or the memory of one of the people in question is wrong.   I know I've seen a number of inconsistencies between the old episode guides and the entries here, and I have no reason to doubt that Tim's information is correct.    And since the episode hasn't aired since the late 80's, it's understandable that people would have fuzzy memories.   I am looking to visit the University of Pittsburgh library to watch some MRN episodes sometime this summer, and 1336 is definitely one I'm going to check out.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 30, 2012, 11:18:44 AM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)

As for 1336, I doubt the ending was edited.   Most likely, either the older episode guides and/or the memory of one of the people in question is wrong.   I know I've seen a number of inconsistencies between the old episode guides and the entries here, and I have no reason to doubt that Tim's information is correct.    And since the episode hasn't aired since the late 80's, it's understandable that people would have fuzzy memories.   I am looking to visit the University of Pittsburgh library to watch some MRN episodes sometime this summer, and 1336 is definitely one I'm going to check out.

I don't think Tim has commented either way on which closing song 1336 had.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mjb1124 on April 30, 2012, 11:45:44 AM
I know, I'm just saying in general that I'm more inclined to believe his info than the episode guides previously posted.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: bka on May 01, 2012, 08:27:01 AM
If the Tomorrow song was written in part by Josie Carey, Fred would have replaced it with It's Such a Good Feeling - he was moving away from his previous collaboration and into total control of his work, and he would have had to give her credit and pay her royalties. I believe that he received royalties when his own songs were played on air....but you'd have to check that hearsay out. with ASCAP, or whoever the songs were copyrighted by.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 01, 2012, 05:49:41 PM
If the Tomorrow song was written in part by Josie Carey, Fred would have replaced it with It's Such a Good Feeling - he was moving away from his previous collaboration and into total control of his work, and he would have had to give her credit and pay her royalties. I believe that he received royalties when his own songs were played on air....but you'd have to check that hearsay out. with ASCAP, or whoever the songs were copyrighted by.

That does make sense.  However, 1336 had its last airing on May 30, 1988, while there were episodes with the Tomorrow song that aired in the summers of 1989, 1990, and 1991.  So it seems unlikely that they would have edited 1336 but not any of the older episodes.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 01, 2012, 05:57:28 PM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)

I wonder what was originally in that episode.  I'm guessing it was edited, rather than having that week removed from the rotation, since they didn't want to lose the opera in 1125.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 09, 2012, 10:31:40 PM
A few more possibly edited episodes, as I mentioned in another thread:

Episode 9: According to Tim, this has the new set, and was taped at a later date than other episodes from that era.  However, since its tape date (Jan. 4, 1968) was still before its airdate (Feb. 29, 1968), the original version never aired, if it even exists.

Episode 10: The production slate and the end credits both list Barbara Russell as a cast member, but not Betty Aberlin.  However, the episode has Betty Aberlin but not Barbara Russell.  The (usually unreliable) files at the University of Pittsburgh correctly list Betty Aberlin, not Barbara Russell.  Since it's unlikely that the slate would be that wrong, it was probably originally planned or shot with Barbara Russell, and then later re-shot with Betty Aberlin for whatever reason.  Whether or not a version with Barbara Russell ever aired or was even shot is not known.

Episode 21: The production slate shows a later date (Aug. 7, 1968) than the airdate (Mar. 18, 1968).  So, obviously it was re-shot after its original airdate.  I wonder what was in the original episode and why it was re-shot.

This is in addition to other known edited episodes: 1121, 1587, and 1696.  It also seems possible that some episodes had the closing song edited, but that is not confirmed.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 31, 2012, 11:10:45 AM
Another theory about 1336: I wonder if maybe "Tomorrow" was used as a regular song, and not as a closing song.  It seems appropriate, given that the episode is about watches and clocks.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: bka on June 02, 2012, 08:02:53 AM
I may be wrong, but I believe the reason the "Tomorrow" song was dropped was that it had been written with Josie Carey, and she would have had to be given royalties. That (I think) is why the Good Feeling song replaced it.  David Newell would probably know.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on June 02, 2012, 11:10:51 AM
I may be wrong, but I believe the reason the "Tomorrow" song was dropped was that it had been written with Josie Carey, and she would have had to be given royalties. That (I think) is why the Good Feeling song replaced it.  David Newell would probably know.

What I meant is, the University of Pittsburgh files say that Episode 1336 has the Tomorow song, even though that was a 1974 episode, and the song had been replaced by Good Feeling in 1972.  I know of at least one person who specifically remembers 1336 having Tomorrow, but another person who specifically remembers it having Good Feeling.  I never saw (or have no recollection of) the episode.  I was wondering if maybe Tomorrow was used in the episode, but not as a closing song, which could be the reason for the confusion.  There was the theory that it originally had Tomorrow but was later edited to have Good Feeling.  That is unlikely, because people remember hearing the Tomorrow song as late as 1991, but 1336 had its last airing in 1988.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on September 10, 2013, 02:32:31 AM
The only other episode i can think of that was obviously edited is Helping 1703.

Originally, as tv.com notes, there was an error in the credits. They accidentally listed the neighbors from the previous episode (Chuck Aber, Joe Negri and David Newell), 1702. Later, as can be seen on Amazon's print of 1703, the mistake was fixed, probably about the second or third time it aired on TV (1997 i think?). One dead give-away to the credits sequence being edited is that in the original version, the camera pan lasts about as long as the outro music, but on the edited version, the camera awkwardly stops at the red apartment building before the music ends.

I know, the University Of Pitt's and tv.com's episode descriptions may not be accurate sometimes, but this is one of the several instances where they're correct. I know because i recorded 1703 when it first aired in 1996 and the credits are clearly all wrong. After all, they were the ones who noted the Eiffel Tower model's absence in 1504-1760, the Platypus Mound's absence in 1651 and the 1758 goof and we all know those are correct.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on September 10, 2013, 11:09:03 AM
BTW, regarding 1336:

I originally didn't want to spill the beans about this until Tim found and covered the episode, but since that won't be until about a year so from now (since he's doing episodes chronologically from now on), i think i may have have to say this here and now. You guys all know about my fascination with John Costa and the outro music of MRN, right? I've been recording and collecting many of the different variations of the jazzy outro music he played at the end of each episode (unfortunately, as i've said before, i'm missing about 76 of the ones from the modern era i.e., the "When Parents Go To Work" outros from 1989). I just happen to have 1336 in my collection and i've had that outro for over a year. No, it definately wasn't the Tomorrow song he played, it was Good Feeling.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on October 13, 2013, 11:01:31 PM
BTW, regarding 1336:

I originally didn't want to spill the beans about this until Tim found and covered the episode, but since that won't be until about a year so from now (since he's doing episodes chronologically from now on), i think i may have have to say this here and now. You guys all know about my fascination with John Costa and the outro music of MRN, right? I've been recording and collecting many of the different variations of the jazzy outro music he played at the end of each episode (unfortunately, as i've said before, i'm missing about 76 of the ones from the modern era i.e., the "When Parents Go To Work" outros from 1989). I just happen to have 1336 in my collection and i've had that outro for over a year. No, it definately wasn't the Tomorrow song he played, it was Good Feeling.

How did you get access to 1336?  Did you get the full episode or just the outro?  If the full episode, then you can check for certain which song it has?  If it has Good Feeling, as you seem to think, is there any evidence that it may have been reshot?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on October 14, 2013, 05:42:51 AM
BTW, regarding 1336:

I originally didn't want to spill the beans about this until Tim found and covered the episode, but since that won't be until about a year so from now (since he's doing episodes chronologically from now on), i think i may have have to say this here and now. You guys all know about my fascination with John Costa and the outro music of MRN, right? I've been recording and collecting many of the different variations of the jazzy outro music he played at the end of each episode (unfortunately, as i've said before, i'm missing about 76 of the ones from the modern era i.e., the "When Parents Go To Work" outros from 1989). I just happen to have 1336 in my collection and i've had that outro for over a year. No, it definately wasn't the Tomorrow song he played, it was Good Feeling.

How did you get access to 1336?  Did you get the full episode or just the outro?  If the full episode, then you can check for certain which song it has?  If it has Good Feeling, as you seem to think, is there any evidence that it may have been reshot?

Just the outro. I've never seen the actual episode before (nor have i alot of pre-79 weeks, sadly), but a friend of mine had an audio clip of what John Costa's jazzy piano outro on that one was and it seems to indicate that it was Good Feeling for the end of the episode. I don't have the same access to pre-79s as Tim does. If i have several pre-79 outros in my collection (i've mentioned 1326 being one), they're only from some friends of mine who had those episodes or just the outro music. Some of them, though (such as 1447) actually came from my own tapes, what few episodes i recorded.

On the other hand, i do have the original version of the closing to 1703 on tape. I should still have it somewhere, i haven't played it in a while. I don't see why 1336 would've been reshot, since 1261-1335 all end with Good Feeling. 1703 itself wasn't so much reshot, as much as just closing credits, due to the goof-up with the neighbors list.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on October 14, 2013, 08:39:15 AM
Also, since the UP lists Tomorrow at the end, but not Good Feeling on any part of the song list, that should indicate that 1244 was definately the last episode that Tomorrow was performed on, not 1336. And again, i doubt it was edited, because it makes no sense for an episode to be edited when none of the other Tomorrow episodes were edited and since all of 1261-1335 (and maybe all of 1245-1260 for that matter; i know for sure Snow People & Warm Pussycat/1245, 1250, 1256 and 1259 do) ended with Good Feeling. If all the Tomorrow episodes were edited to end with Good Feeling, then Rogers shouldn't have mentioned or sung it in 1459 when explaining to children that next week the closing song will be completely different.

Though interestingly, as i mentioned before, they were correct about 1703, contary to what many people may think, since i have the original version on an old tape and it clearly lists the wrong neighbors. The only flaw is, they didn't mention the mistake was fixed. They're also correct about the Eiffel Tower model's mysterious absense in 1504-1760, the Platypus Mound model's absense in 1651 and 1758 having a goof-up with Rogers revealing what the NOM story will be without referring to it in previous episodes (somebody mentioned this on another thread). Considering those are all modern episodes but 1336 is a pre-79, naturally you can't expect them to make a ton of mistakes on those specific episodes.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on October 14, 2013, 11:25:20 AM
If your friend has the outro, then I assume he also has the entire episode?  Or does he only keep outros?

The only reason why I am suggesting that maybe 1336 was edited was because someone else specifically remembers 1336 having the Tomorrow song, and being surprised to hear it in a blue walled episode.  I wonder if perhaps that person could be confusing 1336 with another episode.  Maybe there is another blue walled episode, other than 1336, that maybe has the Tomorrow song, but is incorrectly listed as Good Feeling.

I agree it makes little sense to edit 1336, since it last aired in 1988, but Tomorrow episodes allegedly last aired in 1991.  Did your friend get 1336 from FCI or did he tape it when it last aired in 1988?  Maybe they had expected to air 1336 in 1992, and didn't want to use the Tomorrow song, but later decided not to air it that year.

In any case, 1244 was not the last time Tomorrow was used.  It was definitely used in 1459, in addition to Good Feeling.  Also, the University of Pittsburgh files are very unreliable when it comes to closing songs.  I wouldn't be surprised if 1244 has Good Feeling, or if some other post-1244 episodes have Tomorrow.  Again, this is likely due to episodes that were shot out of order and/or were reshot or edited.

I thought that I had read somewhere that when 1636 first aired, it had a flashback to a 1970 episode (1120, I think) that had raccoons dancing to the Tomorrow song, and that in later reruns, the Tomorrow song was removed.  But I mentioned that on the Yahoo board, and nobody seemed to think that was correct.  That would make sense, since 1636 first aired in 1991, just after the last pre-79s with the Tomorrow song.  Interestingly, 1636-1640 was the first post-75 week other than Conflict to stop airing, and it stopped airing several years before any others, so arguably, that's another "banned" week.  It's interesting how there are so many mysterious xx36-xx40 weeks.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on October 14, 2013, 12:02:09 PM
If your friend has the outro, then I assume he also has the entire episode?  Or does he only keep outros?


Nope, just the outro. But that's alright for me, because i'm interested in the outro music to any MRN episodes. In any case, it was just a short audio recording, probably back when it last aired in 1988.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on October 25, 2013, 01:14:28 AM
Or does he only keep outros?

Sadly, you're wrong yet again. Apparently, i'm the only-known neighbor who does the outro music-collecting around here. There are a lot of people who collect episodes themselves thankfully, but i have as yet to come across anyone else besides myself who has a collection of MRN outros. If there is such person, the only digital (or semi-digital) episodes he/she has access to are the 26 available to watch for free on PBS Kids' website. Every other episode in the series has to either be paid for (not that the prices are all that ridiculous, but still...) or traded with another person's copy. Not just pre-79s, but even the modern era.

I was lucky to have come across several awesome MRN outros of varying quality from various neighbors, as well as at least a few from my own tapes. I've been trying to find someone who has a collection of said MRN segment too, but no luck. I'd love to hear more pre-79 outros, especially if anyone has any of the ones Tim has heard (i.e., 1111, 1350, ect.) as well as at least any of 76 modern episode outros i'm missing (i.e., 1615, 1625, ect.), but again, i'm thankful for what i have as of now. John Costa was just awesome.

BTW, what do you think about what i said about 1703?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on October 28, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
Or does he only keep outros?

Sadly, you're wrong yet again. Apparently, i'm the only-known neighbor who does the outro music-collecting around here.

You contradicted yourself.  In Reply #18,  you said that your friend has only the outro.

Quote
BTW, what do you think about what i said about 1703?

I honestly don't have any comments on it.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on October 28, 2013, 02:42:41 PM
Oops, you're right! I didn't mean to do that. It's just that 1336 was one of the few he had of just the outro music rather than the whole episode. But i don't think he's as big a collector of the outro music as i am because he had 1077-1079 and 1456-1458, but they didn't end with the outro music (though that couldn't be helped; nearly no one had any idea those episodes were gonna last-air).
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: JCostaThePro on November 13, 2013, 12:42:59 PM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)


Of course, since Tim has the edited version replete with Trolley closing ID at the end, we can't really tell for sure what was removed. To be honest, while i don't doubt this episode was edited (since it has an airport clip with the 1973 United Airlines logo), what i do doubt is that whatever was removed was offensive. Remember, they edited alot of pre-79 episodes for when 1456-1460 premiered/the "pre-79" run ended, which means that not everything they "removed" was offensive. I'm guessing whatever was removed was either an extended clip or was just outdated (since this was reran 6 years later, 3 years after UA started using that logo).

1326, 1409 and 1434 all feature films of children playing while Rogers is singing (or John Costa is playing) a certain song, but since they're identified in the closing credits, they obviously weren't absent when they premiered. If the films were editions, they wouldn't have mentioned them in the credits. If anything was modified for those episodes, it was probably just the addition of the trolley ID at the end (remember, those served a purpose: they showed viewers the episode number and the additional sponsors that were there at the time they were reran i.e., CPB on 1969-1970 episodes; if it was 1456-1460 or anything from the 1975 season, there was no sponsors at all).
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on November 14, 2013, 11:48:23 PM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)


Of course, since Tim has the edited version replete with Trolley closing ID at the end, we can't really tell for sure what was removed. To be honest, while i don't doubt this episode was edited (since it has an airport clip with the 1973 United Airlines logo), what i do doubt is that whatever was removed was offensive. Remember, they edited alot of pre-79 episodes for when 1456-1460 premiered/the "pre-79" run ended, which means that not everything they "removed" was offensive. I'm guessing whatever was removed was either an extended clip or was just outdated (since this was reran 6 years later, 3 years after UA started using that logo).

Based on the credits, obviously something involving Bob Trow was removed, and something involving Mr. McFeely was added.  It's also possible that the Mabel Mercer clip was added.

I agree that whatever was removed was probably not offensive, and was probably just outdated.  Or, another crazy theory: since we now know that Bob Trow was a smoker, maybe he was shown smoking in the original episode, and they wanted to delete that?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 25, 2015, 06:37:14 PM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)


I wonder why Rogers would feel a need to replace the film that showed the modern day UA logo as opposed to the one that was used at the time the episode was made?


It's not like the audience would have any clue.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 25, 2015, 08:55:38 PM
I remember reading that some early color episodes had new footage dubbed in - namely, on reruns of one 1969 episode demonstrating ear protectors at an airport, you see a United Airlines logo that wasn't introduced until 1973.   (EDIT: I think the episode in question is actually 1121 from 1970.)


I wonder why Rogers would feel a need to replace the film that showed the modern day UA logo as opposed to the one that was used at the time the episode was made?


It's not like the audience would have any clue.

I'm thinking that the editting of that episode has nothing to do with the UA logo.  Remember, Mabel Mercer (a singer that Betty Aberlin was friends with) and David Newell appear in the episdoe but were not credited, while Bob Trow was credited in the episode but did not appear in the version that Tim saw.  That implies that there were likely several other edits too.  A crazy theory that I have is, since we know that Bob Trow was a smoker, and smoking wasn't as big a deal in 1970 as it is now, maybe there was a clip with Bob Trow that maybe showed him smoking, or maybe showed an ash tray or a pack of cigarettes in the background.  Remember, according to Tim, Episode 1014 (last aired Dec. 22, 1983) showed a construction working smoking.  Maybe the version of 1014 that Tim saw wasn't the version that aired in 1983, or maybe 1121 was edited some time after 1983, for either its 1986 or 1989 airing.

I often wondered if maybe 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, or 1071-1075 could have been banned due to characters smoking that would have been impossible to edit, since they were in scenes that were too integral to the plot.  But probably not, since when Tim reviewed those episodes, he mentioned nothing about smoking, and I suspect he would have mentioned it if he noticed it.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 26, 2015, 02:39:07 PM
I think you're totally off.

Since Mr. Rogers never smoked I highly doubt he would ever want anyone who smoked off set to do so on the show.

That just doesn't make sense.

Plus even in the late 60's early 70's they were beginning to say it was unhealthy.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 26, 2015, 11:01:58 PM
I think you're totally off.

Since Mr. Rogers never smoked I highly doubt he would ever want anyone who smoked off set to do so on the show.

That just doesn't make sense.

Plus even in the late 60's early 70's they were beginning to say it was unhealthy.

Even if my smoking theory is wrong, it was clear that a scene involving Bob Trow was removed, and replaced by the video with the UA logo.

In any case, I was thinking that maybe it had a candid photo of Bob Trow working, and even if he wasn't actually smoking, maybe an ash tray was shown on his desk.  You are wrong if you say that Fred never showed anybody smoking, since Tim said that 1014 showed a construction worker smoking, and he has a picture to prove it.  Keep in mind that even though during the 60s and early 70s they knew smoking was bad for you, most people during that era smoked anyway.  I'm sure that Betty Aberlin, Bob Trow, and Johnny Costa weren't the only smokers on the MRN cast.  During that era, smoking was probably seen as no different from how ice cream eating is viewed today.  Just because Fred didn't smoke doesn't mean that he wasn't going to show people smoking.

This reminds me of a thread from many years ago on the Yahoo board where I mentioned that I was surprised that when Fred hired Betty that he hired a smoker, especially for a role that would require a lot of singing.  But then somebody pointed out that it was probably hard to find a non-smoker back then.  Similarly, if MRN was being casted today, whoever was cast in Betty's role probably would not be a smoker, but would probably eat ice cream.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 27, 2015, 12:32:49 PM
But that was a film on Picture-Picture.

Plus people still smoke now and even well known singers were known to smoke.

I don't know if anyone on his  staff made the films or he hired a company to make them but perhaps he wouldn't gone out of his way to edit out such stuff especially if it was a company he and his staff hired to make the films.


As for the neighbors who smoked do you honestly expect Fred to hire people who didn't smoke or drink?

I'm sure he figured not everyone you meet in life is gonna follow your values and live the life you do so to hire people on such a basis is ridiculous and he probably would of agreed with me.



Now if someone was a full blown alcoholic and drug user he probably wouldn't of hired them to begin with if he knew about their problem or if they developed such a problem later on he might of convinced them to get help and fire them if they wouldn't.

He probably wouldn't of wanted people on his show addicted to that stuff knowing it might of caused his show problems if somebody on his show was arrested for something involving substances like that.

Also while I read about the Laser pointer being edited out and while I'll have to read though more of these posts, I can't see how they would of been able to do a whole lot of editing on the show.


It's not like Sesame Street where you can easily do so since it's a show that has so many segments unlike MRN which was generally in the TV house with the exceptions of trips to Make Believe and trips to his neighbors homes or businesses and let's just say Joe Negri or Betty have some performer at their places  and they keep asking for royalties for that appearance?

If whatever exists in that episode get taken out what are they gonna replace it with?

Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 27, 2015, 06:00:54 PM
I think that you might be misunderstanding what I am trying to say.  In 1121, there was obviously a scene involving Bob Trow that was removed for whatever reason.  Maybe it was a Picture Picture film.  I don't know.  I just offered speculation that maybe Bob Trow was smoking in the scene that was cut.  Just speculation.  But there was obviously some reason to remove it.  Smoking was more common in 1970 and was more acceptable in 1970 than it is now.

Yes, I am aware that people still smoke.  But not as many as in 1968.  And yes, I am aware that well known singers smoke.  My opinion of smoking isn't relevant here.  Betty said that Fred expected her to act in character even off camera, and expected her to get rid of her cigarette if a kid saw her.  If that was going to be that big a deal to Fred, I'm surprised he didn't seek out a non-smoker.  But, as we agreed, it was probably harder to find a non-smoker in 1968.  Today, if Fred was that concerned about smoking, he would have hired a non-smoker.

In an interview, Betty Aberlin admitted that she used drugs.  I have no idea whether or not Fred was aware of that or not.  But it seems that her drug use wasn't really causing any problems.

As for Episode 1696, when they had to remove the laser pointer scene, they completely reshot the scenes in Fred's television house.  I have been told that the music was clearly Michael Moricz's music rather than Johnny Costa's music, since it was re-shot after Johnny Costa had died (but he was alive when 1696 was originally shot).

It would be much more difficult to re-shoot an older episode, since then Fred and the other cast members would have been more noticeably aged.  The only way would have been to either replace it with a picture picture video (such as the one with the newer UA logo) or replace it with a flashback to an old scene, such as the Mabel Mercer clip.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 30, 2015, 10:29:38 AM
From this review of episode 1121 Bob Dog was in the episode
http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/mrn/episodes/1121/index.html
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 30, 2015, 02:54:47 PM
From this review of episode 1121 Bob Dog was in the episode
http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/mrn/episodes/1121/index.html

You're right, and there is a picture to prove it.  So I wonder why Tim had that comment that Bob Trow was credited but none of his characters appears.  Sounds like an error.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on May 30, 2015, 08:46:24 PM
An error indeed! This is why I rely on all of you to keep me honest!  :)
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: bjdwsm on March 31, 2017, 04:09:41 PM
Some edits I noticed:

As mentioned elsewhere on the board, the early 1970 season shows (1066-1075 or so, can't say for sure) used the previous year's model neighborhood before it was altered slightly (different backdrop with more greenery, the NET building looks a little taller and has a white roof on the new one). During the closing pans of the model, as it approaches the NET building, there's an edit and the remainder of the footage uses the revised neighborhood. From what it looks like on Tim's captures, the 1072 and 1074 copies he has didn't have the trolley episode number card, and didn't have the new NET building footage edit, so I'm guessing this may have been something done to the shows when the 1969-75 repeat package was being prepared.

I think 1101 was also edited for the repackaged post-1976 run. When Fred goes over to Picture-Picture, there's a cut to a tight shot around the frame of Picture-Picture. The wall seems to be a slightly different color in these shots (thought it looks like there were pains taken to make sure it wasn't visible in the shot); I'm guessing they replaced the film footage of the fish because I don't think John Costa was using the synthesizer on the program that early. The fade into the videotaped shot of Fred's fish must also have been replaced footage, then another hard edit back to the original show when Fred's visible on camera again.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 01, 2017, 08:19:35 PM
That's really interesting.  Did you notice those edits from your own copy of the episodes, or from Tim's screenshots?

Was the closing of the 1969 episodes also edited the way that you described?  Or was it just the first 2 weeks of the 1970 season (1066-1075)?  I really wonder what was changed.  Was there any obvious difference between edited vs unedited endings?

As for 1101: I also really wonder what was changed there.  If the wall was still yellow it was probably the 1971-73 version that lacked the wainscoting, but obviously before the walls were painted blue.  Just out of curiosity, is your 1101 from when it aired on TV, or is it from a VHS or DVD release?  I seem to remember hearing that there were 2 VHS versions, one of which lacked the NOM segment.  Maybe the edits were related to that?

Somebody needs to ask somebody at FCI about these edits.

I didn't see it in this thread, but another episode we think may have been edited was Episode 37.  The University of Pittsburgh database says that Mr. McFeely smokes in this episode.  But Tim said that in his copy of 37, he did not smoke, and that FCI denies that Mr. McFeely ever smoked.  But the black and white episodes did not air for long; we think that they last aired in the summer of 1970, and I doubt that attitudes toward smoking in 1970 were that much different than 1968.  So I'm guessing that the episode was not edited.

Another possible edit: we've already discussed the edits in 1696.  But I've also heard that when that episode aired the Monday after Fred passed away in 2003, the opening and closing were edited to add a tribute to Fred.  Did anything have to be removed from the episode to fit it in its timeslot with the tribute added?

A possible theory about edited episodes such as 1101 and 1121: perhaps the removed scenes involved products or songs that FCI no longer had the rights to use?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: rogersfan1 on April 22, 2017, 10:07:22 AM
Someone recently posted a batch of 1970 episodes including the entire 1066-1070 week and all those episodes do indeed have a jump in the closing up to the NET building.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QAtWXRubocE
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 23, 2017, 02:13:09 AM
Someone recently posted a batch of 1970 episodes including the entire 1066-1070 week and all those episodes do indeed have a jump in the closing up to the NET building.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QAtWXRubocE

Does anybody have any idea why these episodes have that jump?  Is it just 1066-1070 that has the jump?  Maybe they had to remove something from the end credits for some reason.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 02, 2017, 06:50:33 PM
Interesting to see those.

I know the FRC as it's known now often doesn't allow these to be put up.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: bjdwsm on May 21, 2017, 02:08:02 AM
Does anybody have any idea why these episodes have that jump?  Is it just 1066-1070 that has the jump?  Maybe they had to remove something from the end credits for some reason.

From what I saw, it is only 1066-1070 that has the splice. 1071 has the revised model, while 1072-1075 use the 1969 model. Not sure why they would edit the end credits, though...I know sometimes the jump from the closing pan to the trolley number card was sometimes abrupt to eliminate any fade into the NET logo animation, but I can't really see that being the reason to splice in the revised model footage.

I've been trying to pick up where there might have also been other edits, particularly with Picture-Picture films. It looks like 1067 may have had new footage, music or voiceover (right before it fades back to Fred starting "Everything Grows Together"), but I don't really have too much of a theory for the reasons behind the edits aside from cosmetic/technical reasons.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 21, 2017, 07:00:36 AM
I think the trolley cards were added later on.


Notice how different the MRN logo looked with the hooks coming from the letters.


Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mjb1124 on May 21, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
Trolley cards were definitely added later.   I think we're talking more about other edits that were made to the episodes at the same time.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: bjdwsm on May 24, 2017, 09:03:14 PM
Watching the marathon, it looks like Costa started adding the synthesizer to his music later in 1972 and incorporated it full-time in 1973, so I'm guessing any film segment from before that point that has synth was done for the 1976 repeat package.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 25, 2017, 11:15:01 AM
I think the trolley cards were added later on.


Notice how different the MRN logo looked with the hooks coming from the letters.

We know that they were added later.  We just don't know when.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 26, 2017, 11:34:37 AM
I'm noticing some of the 1974 episodes list a second copyright date of 1975 as well, was there new stuff edited in later leading to 1975 being added to the copyright?
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: sriv94 on May 26, 2017, 02:31:21 PM
I'm noticing some of the 1974 episodes list a second copyright date of 1975 as well, was there new stuff edited in later leading to 1975 being added to the copyright?

I don't think so--the two seasons prior also used two years on the copyright (for example--1281 [the variety show] was copyrighted 1972 and 1973, although there were a few episodes during that season that used 1973 and 1974 for copyrights then went back to 1972 and 1973 in the same week).

It wasn't until 1391 (first 1975 episode) that they went back to one copyright year.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 27, 2017, 08:24:54 PM
The dual copyright dates have long been a mystery.  Somebody should just ask FCI about them.

I read on another board that 1001 had a copyright date of "1970 / 1969" (yes, in that order, and with a slash), but that appears to be incorrect.  Not sure if that person imagined it or confused it with something else.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on May 28, 2017, 01:12:47 PM
Though this will probably not answer why episodes though 1972-75 but since all of the pre-79's debuted in February of each year, naturally they would start taping new episodes late in the previous year.

I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Probably not.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: MIKEBENNIDICT on December 18, 2017, 02:58:30 PM
I'm watching episode 1010 and it looked like there was editing there are Mr. Rogers mentions the number film about to air on picture picture, it's obvious it's a voice over.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on December 19, 2017, 12:03:08 PM
I'm not so sure. I just took a look at this and while the audio/video is definitely off just a bit, it looks to me like the words we hear are the words he's saying. Seems more like a A/V sync issue to me.
Title: Re: Edited episodes
Post by: mitsguy2001 on December 19, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
Here is a theory: it seems that the episode involves calendar dates.  Maybe originally there was something that showed a specifically 1969 calendar.  Maybe it even showed certain holidays on their original dates, before they were moved to Mondays.