The Neighborhood Archive Forum

Mister Rogers' Neighborhood => Episodes => Topic started by: mitsguy2001 on April 29, 2012, 09:09:07 PM

Title: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 29, 2012, 09:09:07 PM
I have heard that there were 3 weeks of episodes from the 1969 season (1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060), and 1 week from the 1970 season (1071-1075) that were omitted from the Plan and Play book, and stopped airing long before the rest of those seasons last aired.  I know for sure that 1071-1075 did not air the last 2 times the 1970 season aired (in the summers of 1986 and 1989), and I was told that it also did not air in 1984.  Does anyone know when those 4 weeks last aired?  Also, does anyone know why those 4 weeks stopped airing long before the rest of those seasons?  These 4 weeks include Episode 1055, the teddy bear / whaling ship opera.

A few theories I have are:

1. Maybe they had content that Fred later found objectionable?  I know 1051-1055 has fishing, and 1075 has lab rats.  But Johnny Costa's mother gave Fred a meat pie in 1455, and that week aired as late as 1994 (again, maybe it was too important to skip).

2. Maybe there was some outdated info in those episodes?  Maybe 1055 mentioned a nation that no longer exists?

3. Maybe they were considered less important or less popular than other episodes?  As newer episodes were created, these were retired?

4. Maybe the tapes were damged or are low quality?

5. Maybe these episodes were planned but never created?  But that is unlikely, since Betty Aberlin (from other posts) seems to remember 1055.

Thanks.  I've been curious about these episodes for years.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on April 30, 2012, 10:42:56 AM
1055 definitely exists - there's an entry for it with pictures here (http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/mrn/episodes/1055/index.html).  I have little reason to doubt that the others do.    Another theory I've heard was that these episode prominently featured characters that acted a little different than they would later, such as Mr. McFeely and Bob Dog, and they thought the character differences would unnerve viewers.   

But it's also possible that Fred and company were simply planning to gradually phase out episodes all along, and perhaps by 1983-84 there were enough new post-79 episodes that they could take 4 particularly dated weeks of pre-79's out.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on April 30, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
Okay, having looked at the episode guides, here's my theories on why these episodes may have been phased out:

- 1036-1040 may very likely have been phased out because of Dr. Penn Lupovich's appearances.

- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.   Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 30, 2012, 11:17:46 AM
Quote
- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.   Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

As far as I know, 1031-1035, 1041-1045, 1046-1050, and 1061-1065 were also uneventful, but they were included in the Plan and Play book, and probably aired during at least the late 70s (maybe even early 80s), but probably not in 1983 or 1984.  So I don't think 1056-1060 being "banned" is because it was uneventful.

Quote
- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

That could be.  Or maybe because of the lab rats.  I also read that supposedly, Fred comments that one rat was white and the other was black, but that they are equal.  That may have been judged to be offensive.

Quote
By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.

Although, in 1456, Fred refers to "last week", so it doesn't really make sense for there to be a break between 1455 and 1456.  Though maybe back then, maybe they didn't care about that too much.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on April 30, 2012, 03:31:29 PM
Yeah, those are all plausible scenarios.   In any case, it does stand to reason that they may have all contained content that made Fred, other cast members, and/or the viewers uncomfortable, and thus they were taken out of the rotation as soon as there were enough post-79's to make up for them.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 01, 2012, 08:22:46 AM

as for why the Wizard of Lupovich episodes may have been taken out of the cycle: I think Fred wanted the concepts of "magic" excised. He had explained "witches" in the Maggie Hamilton episodes, but he had no chance regarding wizards, and was more and more editing out the whimsey and bringing in the factual.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on May 01, 2012, 09:18:09 AM
this kind of information posted, and these kinds of personal speculations make me sick.  I respectfully ask that they be taken off this site.

Members of this board have the ability to edit their own posts and remove content. I think this request to have some of the more personal content and suggestions removed should be honored. I would like give everyone the opportunity to edit their own posts as necessary rather than me stepping in and wiping out all of this thread.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 01, 2012, 12:29:28 PM
this kind of information posted, and these kinds of personal speculations make me sick.  I respectfully ask that they be taken off this site.

Members of this board have the ability to edit their own posts and remove content. I think this request to have some of the more personal content and suggestions removed should be honored. I would like give everyone the opportunity to edit their own posts as necessary rather than me stepping in and wiping out all of this thread.

I removed the offending material from my post.  Sorry; I didn't mean to offend anyone or make anyone uncomfortable.  I'll be more careful in the future.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 01, 2012, 12:34:46 PM
and as for why the Wizard of Lupovich episodes may have been taken out of the cycle: I think Fred wanted the concepts of "magic" excised. He had explained "witches" in the Maggie Hamilton episodes, but he had no chance regarding wizards, and was more and more editing out the whimsey and bringing in the factual.

Do you know when that episode (and the others mentioned in this thread) last aired?  Were there any later episodes that were edited, rather than removed?  Did the other episodes mentioned in this thread also contain magic that made Fred uncomfortable?  Why was Fred ok with magic such as Lady Elaine's boomerang?  Maybe since Lady Elaine was a puppet, and was clearly not real.

Since aparently the decision to excise magic was made prior to 1975 (when the Margaret Hamilton episodes first aired), maybe 1036-1040 never reran at all during the mid-late 70s.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 01, 2012, 05:56:20 PM
In Episode 37 from the 1968 season, it said that Fred gets angry about Mr. McFeely's smoking.  I wonder if maybe Mr. McFeely smoked on camera in the early episodes.  Or if it was only 37 that he smoked.  Or if he never actually smoked on camera.  If Mr. McFeely did smoke, then I wonder if maybe he could have smoked on camera in 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, or 1071-1075.  Not that Fred necessarily wanted to completely remove smoking (since supposedly somebody smokes a cigar in 1014, which aired in 1983), but maybe kids who knew Mr. McFeely as a non-smoking character might be unnerved to suddenly see him smoking.

The other mystery is why 1396-1400, 1411-1415, 1416-1420, and 1441-1445 never aired during the 90s.  Maybe that is also wanting to remove magic.  I know that 1416 has the tooth fairy.  Also, 1411-1415 and 1417-1420 are about an energy crisis, which was more relevant in the 70s than it was in the 90s.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 02, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
The last 2 weeks of pre-79s (1451-1460) contain a lot of flashbacks to very old episodes (mostly from the 1969 season).  However, none of the flashbacks are to any of the 4 banned weeks.  I wonder if that could be a hint that they did not air at all after 1976.  Or, another possibility is that maybe they wanted to be sure to air all of the weeks that were flashed back to.  Strangely, none of the episodes (pre-79 or post-75) that show opera flashbacks ever show a flashback to 1125, even though that week was never banned.  I wonder why.

I'm kind of surprised that 1456-1460 aired in 1986 and 1989, when the 1970 season aired but the 1969 season did not.  With the 1969 season not airing,  you see almost none of the episodes that were flashed back to.  Also, part of the intention of 1456-1460 was to prepare kids for seeing Lady Aberlin and Handyman Negri in the real world, interacting directly with Fred (as opposed to the real-life Betty Aberlin and Joe Negri), which happened only in the 1969 season, not the 1970 season.

For that matter, I'm surprised that 1066-1070 aired in 1986 and 1989.  Part of the purpose of that week was to teach kids that Bob Trow (and maybe Betty Aberlin and Joe Negri) are real people, and to introduce their real-life characters to the kids.  However, anyone who had been watching the later MRN seasons (and not the 1969 season) would already know that.  Also, that week introduced the NOM models (such as the clock, castle, etc), which kids would have already been familiar with, seeing them in later seasons.  Also, in that week, they said that Lady Elaine would open a pie stand "next week".  But with 1071-1075 not airing, we never saw "next week".  So it may have made more sense to start with 1076.  Also, for what it's worth, 1066-1070 has a different traffic light (the one used in 1969) and possibly a different model neighborhood, so there was likely a break in production sometime before 1076, making it a more logical place to start.

Also, if I am remembering right, 1066 has a possible double entendre.  If I remember right, Robert Troll is upset, because King Friday is "busy".  We know that 2 weeks later, Queen Sara finds out she's pregnant.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on May 03, 2012, 12:58:00 AM
I can see the logic in airing 1456-1460 before going into 1970 episodes.   The 1970 season still largely had the same look as 1969, and featured the same "Tomorrow" closing song.   So 1456-1460 could have still been used to prepare children who had never seen earlier episodes for those differences, and for the general idea of going back to older episodes, thus limiting confusion.

Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 03, 2012, 06:15:37 AM
because "Betty Aberlin" was scripted in the Neighborhood of Reality, even she was a character distinct from the actor. Fred used our names, even in Make-Believe (the exception being David Newell, although he got to be "David" McFeeley). Betty was phased out of the Reality segments (ditto Betty's Little Theater) and relegated to Make-Believe, as Lady Aberlin. Other guests got to "be themselves" to a greater extent. Then Fred's insistence that he was a "real person" called our authenticity somehow into question, as though to be our true selves would be like coloring outside the lines in one of those books children crayon in.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 03, 2012, 10:25:25 AM
1051-1055 must have aired at some point during the 1976 and beyond reruns as on the review of the episode on the site here it has a photo of the trolley closing with the epiose number. I also remember reading a while back that in the week of 1056-1060 there was an episode where Mr. McFeely barges in and steals a puzzle Fred was working on, although that doesn't really seem offensive it is different behavior though. I've always wondered about 1071-1075 as perhaps the lab rats may have been an issue although I imagaine the black and white thing was part of the times as it was shortly after the Martin Luther King assasination and the Democratic Convention riots in Chicago with tension in race relations. What would be interesting is if one or more o those weeks didn't make it into the 1976 reruns then the premiere of 1461 in August 1979 would have interupted a 1969 run.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 03, 2012, 11:20:49 AM
because "Betty Aberlin" was scripted in the Neighborhood of Reality, even she was a character distinct from the actor. Fred used our names, even in Make-Believe (the exception being David Newell, although he got to be "David" McFeeley). Betty was phased out of the Reality segments (ditto Betty's Little Theater) and relegated to Make-Believe, as Lady Aberlin. Other guests got to "be themselves" to a greater extent. Then Fred's insistence that he was a "real person" called our authenticity somehow into question, as though to be our true selves would be like coloring outside the lines in one of those books children crayon in.

That is interesting.  I always wondered how scripted the real neighborhood scenes were, and whether or not "Betty Aberlin", "Bob Trow", and "Joe Negri" in those scenes were similar to their real life personalities.  Were "Bob Trow" and "Joe Negri"'s scenes also scripted?  Were there supposedly real neighborhood characters also very different from their real life counterparts?  I am guessing that the real neighborhood "Betty Aberlin" scenes were eventually phased out since they confused kids into thinking that they were based on your real-life personality.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 03, 2012, 11:41:01 AM
1051-1055 must have aired at some point during the 1976 and beyond reruns as on the review of the episode on the site here it has a photo of the trolley closing with the epiose number.

Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

Quote
I also remember reading a while back that in the week of 1056-1060 there was an episode where Mr. McFeely barges in and steals a puzzle Fred was working on, although that doesn't really seem offensive it is different behavior though. I've always wondered about 1071-1075 as perhaps the lab rats may have been an issue although I imagaine the black and white thing was part of the times as it was shortly after the Martin Luther King assasination and the Democratic Convention riots in Chicago with tension in race relations.

But my point is that it would not be acceptable to treat black people badly, even if you treat white people equally badly.

Quote
What would be interesting is if one or more o those weeks didn't make it into the 1976 reruns then the premiere of 1461 in August 1979 would have interupted a 1969 run.

Although, if all of them aired, the premiere of Starting School would interrupt between 1455 and 1456, which doesn't make much sense either, since in 1456, Fred references "last week".  Also, we know that Superheroes premiered Feb. 4-8, 1980.  Unlike Starting School, that was a completely random week (not even at the right time of year for that episode) that could have aired anytime.  If every banned week continued to air even in 1979, then Superheroes would have interrupted between 1105 and 1106, meaning that Prince Tuesday would go from the womb, to school age, and back to the womb again.  That would have been confusing.  That was the likely reason why Starting School was skipped in 1989.  Assuming the banned weeks all aired in 1976 and 1978, then depending on how many banned weeks aired in 1979, Superheroes would have interrupted after either 1105, 1110, 1115, 1120, or 1125.  None of those are ideal, but since Tuesday was born in 1117, that means a break after 1120 or 1125 would be less confusing.  So even if the banned weeks did air in 1976 and 1978 (as at least some of them likely did), it is unlikely that they all aired in 1979.

Honestly, there are too many combinations, which are going to make this hard to ever figure out, unless someome has specific memories, or unless someone can find old TV listings or news articles about what episodes are airing.  There are too many different combinations.  There is even the possibility that one or more banned weeks aired in 1976 but not 1978.  And then there is the possibility that some weeks aired more than once.  For example, maybe 1261-1265 could have had an extra airing one year aound Christmas.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 03, 2012, 01:10:17 PM
there's nothing but room for misunderstanding here. Hard to know how to be more clear.  Fred based our characters on our true natures, but in perhaps a very strong reaction to his improvisational  work with Josey Carey, all our lines were very strictly scripted.  If he visited a painter or a potter, or Marilyn Barnett came to visit, there was some room for the "gist" of the scene's action, but all Neighbors were held to the scripts, which we memorized. Fred never had to memorize his own lines, because in his television house, he worked off a prompter, and when he worked the puppets, he had a script, and a "pointer", usually Lenny Meledandri (Prince Tuesday), behind the set, to point to the lines he was reading, so that he could more easily distinguish, say, the King's voice from the Queen's if they were interacting.  I personally think there were other reasons for Betty being banished from Reality and relegated to Make-Believe, reasons having nothing to do with the confusion of children.  The model was already there for other neighbors to have Negri's Music Shop or Brockett's Bakery.....Fred exerted complete control. After all, the program is called Mister Rogers' Neighborhood.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on May 04, 2012, 10:40:25 AM
Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

Well, the Amazon print of episode 1271 (from 1973) has a long fade-out of the end credits followed immediately by the 1971 PBS logo, with no trolley card.   And I also remember seeing an episode from around 1972 or 1973 at the Paley Center that didn't have a trolley card, but did have the PBS logo.   So that seems to confirm that the trolley cards were not used until at least 1974.    My guess is that they would have debuted in 1975 or early 1976, considering that the early 1969 episodes have the same short version as the 1975-76 ones, and the 1974 Friday episodes have the same long trolley closing as the 1973 ones.

But yes, the trolley card on 1055 indicates that at least that week must have been rerun at some point after 1976, unless they just prepared it for reruns and never showed it.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
Good point.  Unless those trolley cards were added sometimes around 1971, when the older seasons were probably still in rotation.

Well, the Amazon print of episode 1271 (from 1973) has a long fade-out of the end credits followed immediately by the 1971 PBS logo, with no trolley card.   And I also remember seeing an episode from around 1972 or 1973 at the Paley Center that didn't have a trolley card, but did have the PBS logo.   So that seems to confirm that the trolley cards were not used until at least 1974.    My guess is that they would have debuted in 1975 or early 1976, considering that the early 1969 episodes have the same short version as the 1975-76 ones, and the 1974 Friday episodes have the same long trolley closing as the 1973 ones.

But yes, the trolley card on 1055 indicates that at least that week must have been rerun at some point after 1976, unless they just prepared it for reruns and never showed it.

That does make sense.  1975 is also my guess as to when they added the trolley card, for the same reasons that you said.  Also, in 1456-1460, Fred openly referred to episodes by their 4 digit episode number, implying that they (and the trolley cards) were in use and familiar to kids at the time.

I doubt that 1051-1055 was prepared for reruns but never reran.  From what I heard, they extensively reviewed and edited the old episodes before the 1976 reruns.  In fact, maybe that is why the 4 digit episode numbers were used, to distinguish them from the unedited versions of those episodes.  For example, Episode 131 would be the original version without the trolley graphic.  Episode 1001 is that same episode with the trolley graphic and possibly other episodes.

It would be interesting for arnyone who has 1456-1460 to count how many tapes are in the collection.  Is all 460 there, or are they missing some.  Also, for example, when he shows the tape of 1062, check to see if it's actually the 62nd tape, or if there are other missing tapes.  I'm pretty sure that there are not any black and white episodes in the collection that is shown.

As for the fact that none of the opera flashbacks ever show 1125, even though they show all of the 1971-75 operas at least once: maybe they had originally intended to pull that week from the rotation, perhaps because of whatever material in 1121 had to be edited out.  And then maybe they later decided that 1125 was too good an episode to lose, so they decided to edit 1121, rather than banning that whole week.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2012, 11:19:13 AM
I can see the logic in airing 1456-1460 before going into 1970 episodes.   The 1970 season still largely had the same look as 1969, and featured the same "Tomorrow" closing song.   So 1456-1460 could have still been used to prepare children who had never seen earlier episodes for those differences, and for the general idea of going back to older episodes, thus limiting confusion.



That makes sense.  Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2012, 11:25:40 AM
Okay, having looked at the episode guides, here's my theories on why these episodes may have been phased out:

- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.

Tim: you have that episode.  Did it have any outdated geography?

Quote
  Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

Quote
- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

- 1071-1075 may have been phased out because it featured Bob Dog's early bad behavior that resulted in him having a cage put over his head.

Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

Quote
By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.

That was just a theory that they last aired in 1978.  I don't think that was ever proven.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on May 04, 2012, 11:54:43 AM
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I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

It's tough to say.   It seemed like earlier on, like between 1979 and 1984, they were intent on gradually removing episodes from the rotation, and then they stopped for a while until 1992 when the mass purging of pre-79's started.    In retrospect, I'm surprised that they didn't start the cycle from 1971 back in 1989 - they would have ended up roughly around the same point they skipped to in 1992 anyway.    But I'm glad they didn't go that route, or else I wouldn't have grown up seeing episodes with the NET house, "Misterogers' Neighborhood" logo, and yellow-walled/wainscotting interior.   

Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?

I can see where your logic is coming from, but I guess those things weren't put into consideration at the time. 

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Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

Oh, okay, then maybe that wasn't a factor.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
Quote
I think originally, Fred intended for the post-75s to be specials, and not to replace the pre-79s.  Also, if 1475 was intended as a replacement for 1055, then why were 1125, 1169, and 1245 not pulled from the rotation when 1505, 1535, and 1565 added?  Although, in my previous post, I mentioned possible evidence that maybe 1125 was intended to be phased out, but never was.

It's tough to say.   It seemed like earlier on, like between 1979 and 1984, they were intent on gradually removing episodes from the rotation, and then they stopped for a while until 1992 when the mass purging of pre-79's started.    In retrospect, I'm surprised that they didn't start the cycle from 1971 back in 1989 - they would have ended up roughly around the same point they skipped to in 1992 anyway.    But I'm glad they didn't go that route, or else I wouldn't have grown up seeing episodes with the NET house, "Misterogers' Neighborhood" logo, and yellow-walled/wainscotting interior.

Actually, exactly the same place.  Remember, they aired 12 weeks of 1970 episodes.  And after 1991, they skipped 12 weeks of 1973 and 1974 episodes.  I wonder why they skipped so many.  Even if they wanted to avoid the beige walls, they could have just started with 1336 (I think 1331-1335 continues a story from 1326-1330).  I wonder if there was some funding reason why they had to skip so many episodes.  Or, if they just wanted to limit the pre-79s anyway, and maybe none of 1326-1350 made the cut (just like 1396-1400, 1411-1415, 1416-1420, and 1441-1445 aparently didn't make the cut either).    

Do you agree that it may have made more sense to start with 1076 rather than 1066?

Quote
I can see where your logic is coming from, but I guess those things weren't put into consideration at the time.  

Now that I think of it: I had suggested on another thread that maybe Episodes 1-5 were never reran, because they were designed to introduce kids who watched the EEN episodes to the national episodes.  However, they probably did air, just like 1001-1005 and 1066-1070 kept airing.

Remember, 1001-1005 was designed to introduce kids who watched the black and white episodes to the color episodes, by having the Froggs move away, painting the museum, Sara moving in, etc.  However, it kept airing long after the black and white episodes stopped airing.  Similarly, as I mentioned, 1066-1070 was designed to introduce kids who saw the 1969 season to the 1970 season.  It introduced the NOM models, and the concept of actors (such as Bob Trow) appearing as themself.  However, as I said, 1066-1070 continued airing long after the 1969 season stopped airing.

Quote
Although, the archive says that he still has the cage over his head in 1076.

Quote
Oh, okay, then maybe that wasn't a factor.

Although, maybe the issue was the bad behavior, rather than the cage.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 04, 2012, 05:01:21 PM
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 04, 2012, 07:10:26 PM
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?

My guess is that they probably would have somehow edited the offending material, like they did in 1121 and 1696.  Although, by 1976, the set looked very different than it did in 1969 and 1970, so I don't know what they would have done if the material was in the television house or the NOM.  If it was short, they may have just replaced it with a picture picture video, which seems to be what they did in 1121.  But I don't know what they would have done if it was a major part of the episode, like in 1696.  I also wonder if, maybe as a last resort, if they could have spliced together the real neighborhood portion of one existing episode with the NOM from another episode.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 07, 2012, 11:25:06 AM
One thing that is interesting about 1071-1075 being skipped is that there seems to be a Neighborhood Of Make Believe story continued to 1076 with the pie restaurant and it says Bob Dog is banished to Someplace Else  in 1075 but I don't recall it being mentioned in 1076-1080, and 1071-1075 saw Bob Dog's debut although it may not have been a major plotline and by the 80s kids would have been well familiar with Bob Dog, also if there was offending material what would have happened had it been during a significant week like a birth of And or Prince Tuesday or a pregnancy being anounced?

Come to think of it, 1036-1040 is somewhat important plot-wise, since it's when King Friday first meets the Platypus family.  The description says that King Friday has a cold, so he goes to Dr. Bill for a checkup.  Since the king and queen returned from their honeymoon in 1030, I'm not sure how he didn't notice the platypus family in 1031-1035.

I wonder what would have happened if someone in the NOM had a medical problem after Dr. Frogg left but before Dr. Bill arrived.  I guess they were out of luck, or had to go to Westwood.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 10, 2012, 01:21:38 PM
Another thing that I saw listed in an episode description from the 1071-1075 week had Bob Dog actually being locked in a cage as opposed to wearing one on his head, which may have been a factor although I wonder if hisfirst appearance was supposed to be a significant plotline. It seemed that Bob Dog in his first year was rather wild with the cage on his head and a few where he barks at the trolley. Also, what was the plan and play book mentioned?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on May 11, 2012, 09:23:01 AM
Tim: you have that episode.  Did it have any outdated geography?

Not that I recall. They did "visit" various parts of the world as part of the story but I don't recall anything that would be considered outdated geography.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 14, 2012, 11:02:47 PM
Also, what was the plan and play book mentioned?

Since nobody answered, I'll take a guess at it.  I've never seen the Plan and Play book, but I've been told that it gave a description and activities for every color episode of the series, except for 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075.  I've also been told that as late as 1995, it still went all the way back to 1001 (except for the 4 banned weeks), even though those early pre-79s were obviously never going to air again.  That is what lead me to think that 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075 had content issues, given that they were always excluded from the book.  I guess maybe since they already wrote descriptions for all other episodes, they kept them in the book, but never bothered to write activities for those 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on May 15, 2012, 06:23:14 AM
http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/publications/parents/planplay6/index.html
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 15, 2012, 11:50:11 AM
http://www.neighborhoodarchive.com/publications/parents/planplay6/index.html

Interesting.  Looks like that version has everything from 1001-1765.  Does it even have 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075?  If not, does it give any explanation as to what happened to those episodes?  Does it give any schedule info from 1984 or earlier, or info on when the 1969 episodes all last aired?

Just out of curiosity, what does the book say for 1080?  I know for sure I watched MRN on June 13, 1986 when it should have aired, but I know for sure I did not see the episode where Fred received the Eiffel Tower model.  That lead some of us to beleive it was mislabeled in the University of Pittsburgh files.  Also, that seems to be "Betty Aberlin"'s first real neighborhood appearance (not as Lady Aberlin), and I wonder how Fred explained who she was.  Did he, like in 1066 when he explained about Bob Trow being a real person, explain that Betty Aberlin is a real person, and that she's an actress that plays Lady Aberlin in the NOM?  If so, I'm almost certain I never saw that episode.

Also, what does it say for 1221?  I remember we thought that was possibly reversed with another episode, such as 1195.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on May 15, 2012, 07:47:23 PM
Keep in mind that the Plan and Play book is not really an episode guide but more so a supplemental book full of activities to be used along with episodes of MRN.

Does it even have 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075?  If not, does it give any explanation as to what happened to those episodes?  Does it give any schedule info from 1984 or earlier, or info on when the 1969 episodes all last aired?

Unfortunately the answer to each of these questions is no.

Just out of curiosity, what does the book say for 1080?  

"Today Mister Rogers talks about waiting. He suggests there are many creative things to do while waiting, like making up games to play. Everyone is waiting to hear the royal secret in the Neighborhood of Make-Believe."

Also, what does it say for 1221?

"Mister Rogers explains that children often resort to tricks and clowning to gain attention -- especially when they're feeling insecure. He sings the song, "The Clown in Me." Lady Elaine wants attention and flashes a light in Mr. McFeely's eyes."
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 15, 2012, 11:04:56 PM
Keep in mind that the Plan and Play book is not really an episode guide but more so a supplemental book full of activities to be used along with episodes of MRN.

Does it even have 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075?  If not, does it give any explanation as to what happened to those episodes?  Does it give any schedule info from 1984 or earlier, or info on when the 1969 episodes all last aired?

Unfortunately the answer to each of these questions is no.

Just out of curiosity, what does the book say for 1080?  

"Today Mister Rogers talks about waiting. He suggests there are many creative things to do while waiting, like making up games to play. Everyone is waiting to hear the royal secret in the Neighborhood of Make-Believe."

That does sound correct, although it makes no mention of the Eiffel Tower model, or introducing Betty Aberlin (as opposed to Lady Aberlin).  For 1066-1070, does it mention the models?  And in particular, does it mention introducing the human Bob Trow in 1066?

Also, what does it say for 1221?

Quote
"Mister Rogers explains that children often resort to tricks and clowning to gain attention -- especially when they're feeling insecure. He sings the song, "The Clown in Me." Lady Elaine wants attention and flashes a light in Mr. McFeely's eyes."

That also sounds correct.  Although, I really doubt that it closes with the Weekend Song.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 24, 2012, 11:43:56 AM
Just out of curiosity, does the Plan and Play book include Conflict?  If so, it would be really strange that it included Conflict until the end, but not 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075.

Another possibility about some of these banned weeks: maybe they contained a song that had copyright issues?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Lawrence Martin on May 24, 2012, 01:41:29 PM
Yes Conflict is in the sixth edition and it is a part of the running neighborhood
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 24, 2012, 03:38:52 PM
Yes Conflict is in the sixth edition and it is a part of the running neighborhood


What is the "running neighborhood"?  I wonder why they removed 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, and 1071-1075, but not Conflict.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 26, 2012, 07:18:20 AM
in the "Neighborhood" segments, Fred's television house & visits to other neighbors in "reality", including on-location visits as distinct from "make-believe" segments - "Betty Aberlin" in "reality" ran Betty's Little Theater, Joe Negri had a music shop, Bob Trow had a workshop, Audrey (I don't think her last name, Roth, was ever used) ran a cleaning service, "Chef" Brockett a bakery, and so on. these were made-up occupations that in some cases touched upon our own true interests, in some cases not. they facilitated diversity in focus - performers could come to BLT, musicians to the music shop, etc.  Fred's on-camera house was a modest little cottage. In real real life, he was a wealthy man. not talking about his vast spiritual riches here. He was a workaholic, but he had never had to work for a living, as those he worked with had.  The paradoxical, oft repeated  - "what you see is what you get"  & St. Exupery's "what is essential is invisible to the eye" - somewhere in this fusion lay the truth. 

how can an actress named Betty Aberlin "play" a character named Betty Aberlin? and how can that "character" Betty Aberlin - "play" Lady Aberlin in Make-Believe?

and shall I limit myself to the "Betty Aberlin"/"Lady Aberlin" character who was given lines to speak believably - by a man who did not share her formation or life-experiences, and was steeped in child-development psychology, and accustomed to authority - and set aside my REAL dimensional warts-and-all being?

nope.

and as an actress, in a Kingdom, shall I seek to hint at a balance somewhere between the mischief-making, n.o.m. scapegoat (Lady Elaine Fairchild - not a beauty - except to those who loved her, not married, and no children) and the submissive Queen Sarah (peaceful, helpmate to her husband the King, and mother to Tuesday), the shy Henrietta, the Dr. Bill's Wife (Elsie Jean), the utterly meek & delightful Ana, and the spinster teacher/organist Harriet Elizabeth Cow? shall there be some quality of spunk along with the sweetness?   

what is the fruit of collaboration among people of differing backgrounds around a common cause?  what is the bias of this writer? of this actor? and what is the freedom of action, on or off camera, in this medium, when the message is "the truth will make you free" and "there is only one person exactly like you, and people can like you exactly the way you are."  How do you walk the walk in the doing of the work?  and so on.

talking about the infinitude of It All.

 
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: earnhardtfan4life on May 27, 2012, 11:07:53 PM
BKA, when I hear you talk about your constant battle between characters all I can think of is it sounds like you had your own Priscilla Cow/Potato Bug moment.  :-)

As a child, I viewed the make believe segments as if it was a total dream.  Fred would introduce objects, people, etc. throughout his segments and then make believe we would see those same objects, people, etc. as symbolic, ironic images used to tell a story. 

While we are on the subject of dissecting the whole "Infinite of It All," I would like to add something.

I continued to watch MRN throughout my elementary school years.  And through the first half of those years Pre-79s were still being shown.  I watched MRN to death especially during the summer months when I was off from school.  As I look back now, I feel that I took His advice too literally.  As I got picked on a lot.  Not because I watched his show, but because he often times said, it's ok to cry.  I used to cry quite often.  I think a lot of those pre79s he often times treated the audience as if they were very fragile people.  I think he may have in fact been way too sensitive on a lot of things.  Coming from a man who got picked on a lot himself growing up,  you think he would have sense to know where the line is.  I feel that he didn't do a good enough job in dealing with the subject of bullying. 

Mike 

 
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 28, 2012, 01:08:53 AM
Coming from a man who got picked on a lot himself growing up,  you think he would have sense to know where the line is.  I feel that he didn't do a good enough job in dealing with the subject of bullying.  

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that any adults do a good job of dealing with the subject of bullying.  There is a lot of media attention on bullies, but never anything on the adults that enable or encourage bullying.

I had posted a few weeks ago that Lady Gaga would be a good guest star on MRN if the show was still producing new episodes today.  She could have talked about bullying, along with other topics.  Unfortunately, the other members of this board basically laughed at me for my idea and thought I was crazy.

As an example of adults encouraging and enabling bullying: when I was bullied in middle school, the teachers and my parents would do nothing about it, and just tell me to ignore it or stay away from the bullies. But when I finally lost it and cursed at another student who had bullied me (who had said far worse things to me than the one curse I said to him), I was given 2 days of detention, and was referred to by the assistant principal as a juvenile delinquent. And then my parents said that if it were up to them, I would have been suspended from school for 5 days for what I said, rather than just 2 days of detention (totally ignoring the fact that kid and others had said far worse things to me, and were never given any punishment at all).

Also, students would turn my last name into a playground insult. I can accept that as a typical case of kids being kids. But the assistant principal would also refer to me by that same playground insult, and yell at me and pull rank on me (telling me I had no right to tell him how to pronounce my name) when I would explain how it was pronounced. There was absolutely no way that any reasonable adult could possibly have pronounced my last name the way he did, so it's not as if he was making an honest mistake. When I told my parents, they accused me of being a liar, saying that no school administrator would ever do something like that.

Ironically, my father himself had been a victim of bullying that was encouraged by adults (yet he didn't seem to gain any sympathy toward me). He was the only Italian kid in a Catholic school that was otherwise completely Irish (the students, faculty, and administration were almost entirely Irish). The other students would occasinally have a "Stomp the (Italian ethnic slur beginning with the letter G) day, which the teachers and administration thought was funny. And if my father tried to defend himself at all, he was given detention. And when he told his parents about it, they would completely side with the administration that gave him detention.

My point is that behind every child bully is one or more adults that encourage or at least enable that bullying.  That is something that nobody, including Fred, has ever properly dealt with.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 28, 2012, 10:56:43 AM
dear Mike - oh yes!  Pricilla was one of my favorite characters! and, like me, Pricilla was fatherless. although having Mother Cow played by Bob Trow was a whole lot more upbeat than my own very serious mother. feminists were a bit grouchy about the "oh yeah, right. all she needs is a boyfriend and she's fine." - but particularly as a fatherless child of divorce, that was actually a hope of mine, deep down. to meet the "cool" Joe who would be a peer and mate.  And in my own life I had tried to be a "potato bug", and failed. not groovy enough.  So like Pricilla, I had to come to terms with my sex, my nature, and my rebellion - had to be willing to work to accept myself as is. "people could like me exactly the way I was/am".

like the rumors (untrue) about Fred's being a combat vet, the cliches about bullying have been the scene where the boy comes home with his complaint, and his father teaches him how to deck his opponents. "ya gotta fight". "get tough"

Fred, who presented himself as-is as a spokesman so "soft" and androgynous that the most-asked question over all the years had to do with his sexual orientation  - could hardly have dealt with the subject - particularly to the 2-4 year old child who was his main target.

you can't give what you don't have.

people nurtured their children as best they could for generations before television "experts"  told them how.  for good or ill.  and although the child-psychology may have given many uncertain parents good ideas, ditto teachers and caregivers insight and inspiration, the apathy that t.v. encouraged somehow created a realm of Info, and Icons along with it.  The Oprahfication/Fredification of human experience. And we began to trust the pundits over our own intuition and wisdom.......

the songs about being glad about who you are; the idea that each one of us is the only one that ever will be, that each day is a new day, that people have to find out what to do with the mad that they feel without hurting others, the insecurities that feed violence against others - those perceived as weak....
these themes were the lifeblood of the program, and perhaps they gave courage to withstand such scapegoating/cruelty as that Mits has described.

later in life, I heard: anger turned outward, aggression. anger turned inward, depression.  anger turned sideways: humor
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mjb1124 on May 28, 2012, 11:12:17 AM
mitsguy, that is really tragic that you and your father had to go through things like that.   I dealt with a lot of bullying myself (also in Catholic school for a time), and while none of the teachers or administrators actively participated in it, they would often give me the cold shoulder when I complained about it.   Or they would ignore it even though it was obviously going on in front of them.   I had a few teachers stick up for me but overall, not much was done.   In retrospect, maybe if I had acted a little tougher and talked back to them, they would have respected me a little more.   But then again maybe not.   

In any case, contrary to the belief that some people try to push, bullying didn't make me tougher.   If anything, it made me look like more of a coward as I was afraid to go to certain classes, and to a certain extent afraid to talk at all.   It also made it harder for me to distinguish between actual bullying and people just lightly poking fun at me, as after a while it all blended together and it just seemed like everyone wanted a piece of me.    While I wouldn't blame my social problems entirely on bullying (I do have Asperger's after all), I think it definitely didn't help as it warped my perspectives.

It would be nice if someone on children's TV could say some things about bullying that could really make an impact.   But I do think that Fred's messages about liking yourself for who you are had real value - if only I had listened to them more when I was young.    I agree that Lady Gaga would have been a good person to talk about such subjects with Mister Rogers, though I don't know if she would have done it or if Fred would have wanted a mainstream pop star with a rather "edgy" image on his show.

And Betty, I think you make great points on the different ways to direct your anger.   I've definitely experience all three directions, though sideways is of course the most desirable.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 29, 2012, 07:14:06 PM
In any case, contrary to the belief that some people try to push, bullying didn't make me tougher.

Exactly!!  That is my point.  Maybe bullying makes some people tougher, but it does not work that way for everyone.  What was especially frustrating to me was any time I had a mean teacher in school (I'm not talking about teachers that were merely strict; I am talking about teachers who were borderline abusive toward students that they didn't like), there would always be students who would defend those teachers, saying that you learn the material very well from them, and that they "prepare you for the real world".  But I found that I actually learned less from those teachers, and learned more from the nice teachers.  But that's just me.  I'm a big beleiver in the line "you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar", although aparently not everyone agrees.

Back to MRN: I much prefer the way Lady Aberlin would take the time to listen to Daniel's problems, and talk things over with him, and assure him that things would be ok.  I know some people would have preferred if she told Daniel to "grow up" or "stop whining" or "be a man".  But, at least for my personality, the way it was handled on MRN would have worked better.  I don't know if perhaps it was MRN that shaped my personality, or if it was my personality that attracted me to MRN.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on May 30, 2012, 11:07:53 AM
dear Mike - oh yes!  Pricilla was one of my favorite characters! and, like me, Pricilla was fatherless. although having Mother Cow played by Bob Trow was a whole lot more upbeat than my own very serious mother. feminists were a bit grouchy about the "oh yeah, right. all she needs is a boyfriend and she's fine." - but particularly as a fatherless child of divorce, that was actually a hope of mine, deep down. to meet the "cool" Joe who would be a peer and mate.  And in my own life I had tried to be a "potato bug", and failed. not groovy enough.  So like Pricilla, I had to come to terms with my sex, my nature, and my rebellion - had to be willing to work to accept myself as is. "people could like me exactly the way I was/am".

If you don't mind me asking, what does it mean to try to be a "potato bug"?  Just that you wanted to be something other than who you were?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bka on May 31, 2012, 07:54:48 AM
yes.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on June 06, 2012, 11:21:47 PM
By the way, I remember reading on The Mister Rogers Society that these last aired in 1978.   I did figure out that if they cycled through the full pre-79 run immediately after the debut of 1456-1460, and then started the cycle again, they would have ended up at 1455 just before 1461-1465 debuted.   Then after the new episodes debuted, presumably they would have run 1456-1460 again leading into a third cycle of pre-79 reruns (this time without the four weeks mentioned above), which would make the most sense.    So it stands to reason that these four weeks were aired twice between 1976 and 1978.

Actually, someone on the Mr. Rogers Society said that he has a friend who remembers seeing at least some of these episodes as late as 1981.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on June 10, 2012, 10:21:02 PM
Tim: Do you plan to eventually obtain these episodes?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: Neighborhood Archive on June 11, 2012, 06:44:33 AM
Tim: Do you plan to eventually obtain these episodes?

I don't want to count my chickens before they're hatched, but yes, at some point I hope to get ahold of these.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on June 12, 2012, 07:46:41 PM
I look forward to hearing about them!  I wonder if they'll have any hint as to when they last aired.  Or if there will be any obvious reasons why they stopped airing so early.  You had commented that 2 would likely not air today, since it showed Fred and Betty pointing make beleive guns at each other, and that 1014 would not air since it showed someone smoking a cigar.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on June 12, 2012, 10:28:55 PM

- With 1051-1055, it could be the fishing thing and/or the outdated geography.   Or maybe they simply wanted fewer operas in the rotation and preferred the more elaborately produced later ones.    Adding to my theory that pre-79's were planned to be phased out all along, perhaps 1471-1475 (Windstorm in Bubbleland) was effectively a replacement for 1051-1055.

Since Johnny Costa's mother gives Fred a meat pie in 1455, and that week aired until 1994 (and was one of the last pre-79s ever to air), I doubt that they would have banned 1051-1055 due to fishing.  Also, Tim doesn't seem to think it had any outdated geography.  As for 1471-1475 being a replacement for 1051-1055: that also seems unlikely, since there were 3 more operas after that (4 if Josephine is considered an opera), but they never banned 1121-1125, 1166-1170, or 1241-1245 (or even 1296-1300 if Josephine counts as an opera).
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: JCostaThePro on April 20, 2013, 04:21:01 PM
- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

I think one of the reasons why 1056-1060 was phased out was b/c of the alleged incident w/ Mr. Rogers and Mr. McFeely over the puzzle in 1056. Remember, the description said that Rogers was working on a puzzle, but Mr. McFeely barged in and took it away ??? before it got finished. Really weird. I don't think it was offensive, but maybe kinda weird because, even though making friends mad is not unusual, that doesn't sound like, well, Mr. McFeely.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on April 21, 2013, 04:02:01 PM
- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

I think one of the reasons why 1056-1060 was phased out was b/c of the alleged incident w/ Mr. Rogers and Mr. McFeely over the puzzle in 1056. Remember, the description said that Rogers was working on a puzzle, but Mr. McFeely barged in and took it away ??? before it got finished. Really weird. I don't think it was offensive, but maybe kinda weird because, even though making friends mad is not unusual, that doesn't sound like, well, Mr. McFeely.

My impression is that Mr. McFeely was very different in the show's early days compared to the later years.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: JCostaThePro on May 14, 2013, 08:57:14 AM
- I can't figure out any specific reasons for 1056-1060 to have been phased out, going by the episode guides.   Maybe there were references to the previous week's opera.  Or it could just be that, judging by the descriptions, this week seemed relatively uneventful compared to much of the 1969 season.

I think one of the reasons why 1056-1060 was phased out was b/c of the alleged incident w/ Mr. Rogers and Mr. McFeely over the puzzle in 1056. Remember, the description said that Rogers was working on a puzzle, but Mr. McFeely barged in and took it away ??? before it got finished. Really weird. I don't think it was offensive, but maybe kinda weird because, even though making friends mad is not unusual, that doesn't sound like, well, Mr. McFeely.

Apparently, i seemed to be a little incorrect in assuming this is why 1056-1060 was pulled. According to the now-detailed article for the episode, there was a reason for Mr. McFeely taking the puzzle away. Rogers got it from a "puzzle lending service" and was apparently timed-out before he could finish. Also, unless i misread Tim's explaination, Mr. McFeely did give him a little time to finish it, but he couldn't due to the pressure he was given. So maybe he wasn't acting unusual in that episode after all.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: JCostaThePro on July 07, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
3. Maybe they were considered less important or less popular than other episodes?  As newer episodes were created, these were retired?

That's probably likely. I still think it's very strange for one of the banned weeks to be an opera week. They must've really disliked these episodes to have banned them.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: JCostaThePro on July 07, 2013, 06:23:02 PM
The other mystery is why 1396-1400, 1411-1415, 1416-1420, and 1441-1445 never aired during the 90s.  Maybe that is also wanting to remove magic.  I know that 1416 has the tooth fairy.  Also, 1411-1415 and 1417-1420 are about an energy crisis, which was more relevant in the 70s than it was in the 90s.

No, it's just 1417-1419 that had the energy crisis.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: bjdwsm on August 12, 2013, 10:22:11 PM
"Banned" comes off as a little harsh a term for these weeks: until we know specifically why FCI took them out of the rerun package, could we just use another term?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: JCostaThePro on August 13, 2013, 03:00:52 AM
"Banned" comes off as a little harsh a term for these weeks: until we know specifically why FCI took them out of the rerun package, could we just use another term?

I thought it was too, but mitsguy explained to me a while back why that is. They definately weren't taken out my mistake because according to the Plan & Play book, 1041, 1061 and 1076 immediately came after 1035, 1050 and 1070. The thing i don't get is, there's a few possible reasons why 1036-1040 and 1071-1075 were pulled, but 1051-1060 is a real mystery. None of those episodes had any offensive/controversial content whatsoever.

And yes, you could say "pulled" if "banned" is a little harsh.
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on August 21, 2013, 12:01:56 PM
"Banned" comes off as a little harsh a term for these weeks: until we know specifically why FCI took them out of the rerun package, could we just use another term?

I thought it was too, but mitsguy explained to me a while back why that is. They definately weren't taken out my mistake because according to the Plan & Play book, 1041, 1061 and 1076 immediately came after 1035, 1050 and 1070. The thing i don't get is, there's a few possible reasons why 1036-1040 and 1071-1075 were pulled, but 1051-1060 is a real mystery. None of those episodes had any offensive/controversial content whatsoever.

And yes, you could say "pulled" if "banned" is a little harsh.

I still think that one of the FCI insiders on this board should ask someone from FCI why those weeks were pulled.

As for why 1051-1060 were banned: possibly because of the fishing in 1051-1055, and because of Francois's ex-wife appearing in 1056-1060 (she was also mentioned in 1071-1075).
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: mitsguy2001 on October 13, 2013, 10:55:13 PM
Has anyone asked FCI when these weeks last aired and if there is any info on why they were banned?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 19, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
Having seen the 1051-60 on twich with all being shown, one reason both weeks stopped airing together even more f only one week was thought to have objectionable content may have been the part about Lady Elaine and Handyman Negri going to the scout jamboree in 1051 and returning in 1056 and feeling because of that one week couldn't air without the other
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: LadyElaine on May 19, 2017, 03:01:21 PM
Why would Lady Elaine and Handyman Negri going to the Scout Jamboree be 'objectionable'?
Title: Re: Episodes 1036-1040, 1051-1055, 1056-1060, 1071-1075
Post by: rogersfan1 on May 19, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
I'm not saying it would be objectionable, I'm saying that since they leave in 1051 and don't return until the next week in 1056, it causes a carry over from one week to the next that they may have felt one week couldn't air without the other even if one of the weeks had objectionable content